So why no powerscrolls in Tram ruleset spawns?

[Ender]

All I seem to hear is that the spawns are about the PvP, not the money... Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?

[Nexus]

All I seem to hear is that the spawns are about the PvP, not the money... Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?

The people saying the spawns are all about the PvP are deluding themselves, if they were not then they wouldn't be the ones selling Power Scrolls for absurd amounts of gold, especially with the introduction of the Faction Items. They keep saying how suits are cheaper and easier to build so why do they still need so much gold?

[canary]

All I seem to hear is that the spawns are about the PvP, not the money... Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?

I play in Tram more than Fel, but seriously Fel needs a FEW extra perks to get people there... even if champs are the only place to find fel ppl.

[Ender]

Being able to enjoy the best part of the game is the only perk needed to go to Fel IMO.


...Or it would be if PvP wasn't ****ed.

[Nexus]

I play in Tram more than Fel, but seriously Fel needs a FEW extra perks to get people there... even if champs are the only place to find fel ppl.

You'd probably get a few more folks into Fel if the PvP culture showed a bit more tact and respect for their fellow player. The Smack talk and complete lack of restraint shown to other players from most of them after they gank some poor fool 6 vs 1 just makes me want to smack the crap out of their parents for not raising their children with a sense of Integrity, Tact, and Honor.


Fel's issue isn't lack of reason to go there, it's lack of civility of the majority of players (Note: Majority does not equal All) that do frequent there.

[Maplestone]

Perhaps the "problem" is that there a number of people with a foot in each realm who like the Fel game, but want the items more and will gravitate to the easiest path in spite of themselves?

(this is one of those topics that evokes strong "you're destroying my game!" reactions whenever it comes up ... personally I've just gotten so used to things the way they are, I find it hard to imagine it any other way)

[Redxpanda]

Putting the Powerscrolls in Fel to encourage PvP has been a failure. Unfortunately they are already there and it wouldn't be fair to take them away but them being there is a complete waste right now. They should replace it with something new and move powerscrolls to both rulesets.

[canary]

You'd probably get a few more folks into Fel if the PvP culture showed a bit more tact and respect for their fellow player. The Smack talk and complete lack of restraint shown to other players from most of them after they gank some poor fool 6 vs 1 just makes me want to smack the crap out of their parents for not raising their children with a sense of Integrity, Tact, and Honor.


Fel's issue isn't lack of reason to go there, it's lack of civility of the majority of players (Note: Majority does not equal All) that do frequent there.

Pfft there was a lack of tact from a large part of the playerbase before fel. That's why we got Tram.

[Nexus]

Pfft there was a lack of tact from a large part of the playerbase before fel. That's why we got Tram.

Exactly, and it's also why they have issues getting people back into Fel today. Unless EA polices the conduct of the players in Fel, or they do it themselves, I see no point in long term continuation of projects to "Repopulate" Felucca as they will be futile.

[canary]

Exactly, and it's also why they have issues getting people back into Fel today. Unless EA polices the conduct of the players in Fel, or they do it themselves, I see no point in long term continuation of projects to "Repopulate" Felucca as they will be futile.

The thing is though... we DO have players that love to pvp and 'talk smack'. I think it's only fair they too have something to work towards.

[DHMagicMan_1]

The reason is that Fel would be even more of a baren wasteland than it already is... the developers realized LONG AGO that there were very few who want to PvP and they aren't entertained PvPing among themselves... so they created PowerScrolls and Double Resources in an attempt to lure sheep for the PK's to ambush...

The developers have forever refused to revisit this decision because they so committed and dug their heals in, now that the truth is so obvious, they know they are trying to sell us on a flat earth.

[HD2300]

I say extend the sale of faction arties like fc3 crystalline rings, +20 extra resists Fey Legs and +5 extra dex crimsons to also the sale of powerscrolls on npc vendors. Say all 120s at 200,000 and all 115s at 10,000.

Just like faction arties allow players to build suits for cheap, allowing players to get 120 in their skills for cheap will mean more people pvping in fel. PvPers are always saying fel is deserted. This will bring more people to pvp in fel.

[Lore Master]

I don't see any harm at all in bringing all power scrolls to tram and keeping them in fel as well giving players a choice if they want to risk being ganked for there power scroll in fel if that is what gives them there jollies or getting a power scroll in tram and not having to worry about some jerk stealing there power scroll in tram. if you want to make items at fel champ spawns only then make it something else then power scrolls something that is not mandatory to get with time to max our skills out at least.

[Ender]

What will bring more people to Fel is eliminating the cheating, getting rid of gimp templates, re-balancing, nerfing some mods, etc.

And yeah, making suits easier to get will help some.

[Dermott of LS]

...

As a Trammel-based player, the Trammel Champ spawns do not need the Powerscrolls. They needed and got their own reward.

Champ spawns are fine as is in that regard IMO.

[Ender]

....What reward did they get? Fel spawns still have a lot more, and I don't know anybody that's managed to get a drop at Tram ruleset spawns yet <_<

[Kaleb]

LOL
:bdh:

With that said about the scrolls lol .......

.......Not all PvPers talk smack there is the fair share of trammies also. And really if your hurt by some words on a screen then you shouldnt be playin MMO's. You have to understand you have to deal with people of different Ages,Race,Backgrounds, Stress levels, countries exc. exc if you cant understand that then you dont understand UO.

If you dont understand getting your enemy upset then you dont know UO pvp. If your enemy is upset he will more than likely make mistakes and mistakes cascade fast into other mistakes In UO pvp. The best way to beat that is to take everything with a grain of salt it is a game afterall. the best PvPers that I know are cool and collected its just a game to them.

*EDIT*
And soon with the release of Darkfall UO will loose most of their remaining PvP playerbase that hasnt gone to PRS so everything here is a moot point anyway.

[DHMagicMan_1]

LOL
:bdh:

With that said about the scrolls lol .......

.......Not all PvPers talk smack there is the fair share of trammies also. And really if your hurt by some words on a screen then you shouldnt be playin MMO's. You have to understand you have to deal with people of different Ages,Race,Backgrounds, Stress levels, countries exc. exc if you cant understand that then you dont understand UO.

If you dont understand getting your enemy upset then you dont know UO pvp. If your enemy is upset he will more than likely make mistakes and mistakes cascade fast into other mistakes In UO pvp. The best way to beat that is to take everything with a grain of salt it is a game afterall. the best PvPers that I know are cool and collected its just a game to them.

*EDIT*
And soon with the release of Darkfall UO will loose most of their remaining PvP playerbase that hasnt gone to PRS so everything here is a moot point anyway.

...

and the VAST MAJORITY of UO players don't want to PvP anyway... that's why the Dev's needed to drag them in against their will in the first place, anyway.

[tjalle]

All I seem to hear is that the spawns are about the PvP, not the money... Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?

Anyone who says to keep the PSs and Harrys in Fel just for the PVP is talking BS. It´s about the scrolls, nothing else...

However, I think they should remain there. As a trammel player (when I play Europa) I see this as one of the hardest challenges in the game.

And I honestly can´t see why other trammel players are so afraid to try to do some of those spawns. Just consider the potential PVPers as a tough "boss". Nothing else.

Doing big PvM stuff like Doom, peerless and events and such, we all risk to die. Nothing different about PVPers. All you lose is some gold and some cheap stuff.

Is it the potential smack talk after being killed? Big deal. Just ignore it.

Is it because you don´t like PVP? Well, just approach it as a hard monster with some different AI then used too.

What is the worst thing that can happen when doing a champ in Fel? You die and maybe gets smack talked. So what?

And if that doesn´t happen you get the rewards!

Sure, there are some things that give some of the PVPers some advantages such as ghost cam-bots and other cheating programs but that´s for another thread...

[Lore Master]

Anyone who says to keep the PSs and Harrys in Fel just for the PVP is talking BS. It´s about the scrolls, nothing else...

However, I think they should remain there. As a trammel player (when I play Europa) I see this as one of the hardest challenges in the game.

And I honestly can´t see why other trammel players are so afraid to try to do some of those spawns. Just consider the potential PVPers as a tough "boss". Nothing else.

Doing big PvM stuff like Doom, peerless and events and such, we all risk to die. Nothing different about PVPers. All you lose is some gold and some cheap stuff.

Is it the potential smack talk after being killed? Big deal. Just ignore it.

Is it because you don´t like PVP? Well, just approach it as a hard monster with some different AI then used too.

What is the worst thing that can happen when doing a champ in Fel? You die and maybe gets smack talked. So what?

And if that doesn´t happen you get the rewards!

Sure, there are some things that give some of the PVPers some advantages such as ghost cam-bots and other cheating programs but that´s for another thread... There is nothing more annoying then loseing your stuff to some punk jerk kid to have him laugh at your ghost its not fear. i rather lose a valuable item to a monster for good then lose any item to some pvper.

[Duskofdead]

All I seem to hear is that the spawns are about the PvP, not the money... Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?

The PvPers need constant ego stroking and reassurance that yesss, precious, you are important to us.

It's really just kind of a big inconvenience to the huge majority of players who otherwise never want to go to Fel for anything. A pander to the Fel players if you will. There is still no real meaningful presence of players in Fel. But at some time or another now you have to go there for something, unless you buy gold.

Continued denial that Fel doesn't have a useful purpose for anyone other than PvPers.

[tjalle]

There is nothing more annoying then loseing your stuff to some punk jerk kid to have him laugh at your ghost its not fear. i rather lose a valuable item to a monster for good then lose any item to some pvper.

Just try to ignore them. Don´t let them get to you...

Or put your killers on ignore. Eventually they will all be mute to you I guess. :)

[GarthGrey]

This thread is completely pointless like all of the others, as long as a Dev refuses to chime in and comment on how Risk V Reward is extinct, and that PS's in Fel only simply keeps the large Real Cash money making guilds happy. Even though they have more free accounts than accounts that they actually pay for...

[Omnius]

this is one of the most horribly ignorant threads I've ever encountered on the topic. The lack of rebuttals shows how fruitless posting would be here. I will say this, if you think pvping over nothing is fun, then you are a trash talking yewbie who probably pvps over nothing. If you think pvping for a valuable resource is fun, well then you understand why the newest games and games coming out provide tangible rewards for controlling resources by means of pvp.

[Lord Kotan]

All I seem to hear is that the spawns are about the PvP, not the money... Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?

One guild can't make 100-150m a day (almost seriously, depending on what shard). Or it hampers the sell of irl items for cash.

------------------
And you still get dbl the reward in fel.... Justice.

[Arrgh]

You'd probably get a few more folks into Fel if the PvP culture showed a bit more tact and respect for their fellow player. The Smack talk and complete lack of restraint shown to other players from most of them after they gank some poor fool 6 vs 1 just makes me want to smack the crap out of their parents for not raising their children with a sense of Integrity, Tact, and Honor.


Fel's issue isn't lack of reason to go there, it's lack of civility of the majority of players (Note: Majority does not equal All) that do frequent there.

I have actually met a few cool pks in Fel but unfortunately it was just a few.

I remember when ganking first started back a year or two before Tram. That's really when the gank squads formed. On Atl they were mainly just a bunch of blues who made up for their lack of skill by using numbers to single out victims and overwhelm them. I did enjoy fighting reds when they were not such cowards. One on one or two on one was awesome!

[Nexus]

The thing is though... we DO have players that love to pvp and 'talk smack'. I think it's only fair they too have something to work towards.

Well if the Smack Talking that goes on was fine then how come so often the contents of it you hear covers things specifically mentioned in the ROC? If it's supposed to be a factor, then why is there a rule against it?

Especially these.

2) You may not use any offensive or sexually explicit language.

3) You may not use any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable language toward any other player.


Sorry seems Smack talking is technically a bannable offense, regardless of Facet, which is why I prefer not to do it myself.

[Farsight]

Does anyone smack talk any more?

Seriously, does anyone even type any more?

I've seen smack talk on the boards, but in my time back in game, I've never once been called anything in the field. I'll go so far as to say that most PvPers have so much of their macros set to normal keys that typing is more annoying to the person who wants to smack talk than the "victim". They typically just kill me and go on with their business (aka finishing their spawn). Any smack talk I've even heard about happens on Vent.

In fact, and this was the most surprising thing I've seen in the last year, I've learned that some of the other players in UO, no matter what their play style, can't even type. Their fingers fly over the keyboards to their macro keys like nobody's business, but when it comes to having a conversation, I typically have to wait for an extraordinary long time for the comment, "Come to vent." And two of the words in that are usually misspelled.

[Sephy]

Anyone who says spawns are not about PVP is stupid

They are, I spawn for pvp, I raid for pvp, I sometimes work spawns get the champ up and sit there waiting for someone to raid, its a place to fight where trammies cant hug guard zones and **** in houses..

PVP is spawns, and spawns is PVP..

If you have scrolls drop in tram, then who would there be to kill? everyone would do in tram where its safe..

Fel is losing the battle to tram, because people dont want to get better at pvp, they would rather avoid it all.

[Traveller]

Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?

Anyone who genuinely cares about PvE will still go to Tram and kill monsters anyway, so what harm is brought by removing any gold and loot from trammel?
/sarcasm

Sometimes it is fruitful to turn on the brain. While few hardcore players would actually play without rewards (both for pvp and pve), any playstyle needs rewards. But if you want to lose more subscribers go right ahead, it's not like you see empty spots and idocs everywhere you walk the lands...

[Wenchkin]

Oh here we go again! *yay*

I wish they'd open up a Tram only shard and throw all the "we want PS in Tram" posters right in. It's not enough that Fel had her dungeons wrecked to support champs. No, we need to turn the scrolls over to Tram too and then watch while Tram folks farm the snot out of those spawns and the rank of "Legendary" is so insignificant that EA may as well just add skill caps of 120 as standard. You want the items and you don't want to deal with a nasty ebil PvPer to get them. Has someone tied your bank checks down so you can't buy scrolls? Hmm?

You want tram spawns of scrolls? Fine, let's put them on an NPC vendor that lets you upgrade your chars for a decent sum of gold. Not a scroll selling machine, you'd pick the scrolls you wanted and have them applied then and there. Then you can avoid those ebil PvPers that you don't want to contend with, and those same PvPers are free to sell the scrolls they get at cheaper prices so they can still make gold and still have something to fight over.

Tram players farming scrolls with no risk (sorry, paragons are not scary) will drown the market in cheap scrolls and turn Fel champs into disused wrecks. So at best you can have an NPC selling the scrolls. Might even make a good gold sink. But some of us don't want Fel turned over yet again to serve the interests of the "we want!" crowd in Tram.

Wenchy

[LadyKeroOfAtl]

I dont pvp or go do fel spawns often..
But I dont agree that the powerscrolls should come to other facets.

It gives a point for people to take the greater risk (However much risk is included when you can use insurance.. well except the exploits..)

Don't want to pay for powerscrolls ? Go hunt in fel.
Don't want to deal with the pvp guild ? Try going at 'off' hours.

I don't like paying for powerscrolls, but I don't expect/want them to come to other facets.

[HD2300]

Oh here we go again! *yay*

I wish they'd open up a Tram only shard and throw all the "we want PS in Tram" posters right in. It's not enough that Fel had her dungeons wrecked to support champs. No, we need to turn the scrolls over to Tram too and then watch while Tram folks farm the snot out of those spawns and the rank of "Legendary" is so insignificant that EA may as well just add skill caps of 120 as standard. You want the items and you don't want to deal with a nasty ebil PvPer to get them. Has someone tied your bank checks down so you can't buy scrolls? Hmm?

You want tram spawns of scrolls? Fine, let's put them on an NPC vendor that lets you upgrade your chars for a decent sum of gold. Not a scroll selling machine, you'd pick the scrolls you wanted and have them applied then and there. Then you can avoid those ebil PvPers that you don't want to contend with, and those same PvPers are free to sell the scrolls they get at cheaper prices so they can still make gold and still have something to fight over.

Tram players farming scrolls with no risk (sorry, paragons are not scary) will drown the market in cheap scrolls and turn Fel champs into disused wrecks. So at best you can have an NPC selling the scrolls. Might even make a good gold sink. But some of us don't want Fel turned over yet again to serve the interests of the "we want!" crowd in Tram.

Wenchy

Most PvPers say being able to buy Faction arties (http://www.uoguide.com/Faction) for peanuts, that you could only previously get in Doom, is great. It is only fair the same happens to PS for PvMers.

Lets take a faction Orni as an example. Get a faction one with MR3 extra for 5000 silver. Or buy a Doom one without MR3 for 10 million gold.

How about a faction crimson. The +5 extra dex Faction one costs 2000. The normal one costs 15 million gold.

It is only fair that now PvMers can buy PS off vendors for peanuts. PvMers should be able to get a 120 Magery for 2000 silver. Maybe even less because a mr3 faction crimson is better than an ordinary crimson. Fair is fair.

[Nystul]

There is nothing more annoying then loseing your stuff to some punk jerk kid to have him laugh at your ghost its not fear. i rather lose a valuable item to a monster for good then lose any item to some pvper.

click your character and start insuring items?

[Nystul]

One guild can't make 100-150m a day (almost seriously, depending on what shard). Or it hampers the sell of irl items for cash.

lol...

that is all.

[Splup]

I never stop wondering this "PvP:rs are smacktalking teenagers". Which shard you guys play? TBH I very rarely see PvP:rs smacktalking tram players. Sometimes I see PvP:rs smacktalking each other since they'v been killing each other again, again and again. But not even that so much nowdays. But smacktalking some randoms dudes seem very very rare to me. And that teenager part, seriously I think there's VERY few teenagers playing this game anymore. They are playing wow or whatever..

Well, maybe situation is different on your shards then, or then you just got this image from somewhere and can't let it go.

[Wenchkin]

Most PvPers say being able to buy Faction arties (http://www.uoguide.com/Faction) for peanuts, that you could only previously get in Doom, is great. It is only fair the same happens to PS for PvMers.

Lets take a faction Orni as an example. Get a faction one with MR3 extra for 5000 silver. Or buy a Doom one without MR3 for 10 million gold.

How about a faction crimson. The +5 extra dex Faction one costs 2000. The normal one costs 15 million gold.

It is only fair that now PvMers can buy PS off vendors for peanuts. PvMers should be able to get a 120 Magery for 2000 silver. Maybe even less because a mr3 faction crimson is better than an ordinary crimson. Fair is fair.
If you want to be a Legendary mage, I think you ought to put in a wee bit more effort to reach the pinnacle of your profession. 2k silver? Pfft. You wouldn't get past the door of the university with that level of commitment. Or lack of. There is a difference between a dumb faction arty and a scroll which enables you to hit 120. Think about it. Item fashions come and go, the faction arties will be superseded, and likely in Tram. Skills can be with a character for his entire lifetime.

Wenchy

[HD2300]

If you want to be a Legendary mage, I think you ought to put in a wee bit more effort to reach the pinnacle of your profession. 2k silver? Pfft. You wouldn't get past the door of the university with that level of commitment. Or lack of. There is a difference between a dumb faction arty and a scroll which enables you to hit 120. Think about it. Item fashions come and go, the faction arties will be superseded, and likely in Tram. Skills can be with a character for his entire lifetime.

Wenchy

That just makes no sense whatsoever. btw Thank you for providing an important service to the all 75,000 subscribers in UO by ensuring that the "rank of Legendary" remains significant. :hahaha:

[Wenchkin]

Well, as you seem unable to understand the difference between a skill level and an item, I didn't expect you to figure out the rest of the post.

Good luck trading 2k silver for a 120 mage scroll. You'll need it.

Wenchy

[RichDC]

Most PvPers say being able to buy Faction arties (http://www.uoguide.com/Faction) for peanuts, that you could only previously get in Doom, is great. It is only fair the same happens to PS for PvMers.

Lets take a faction Orni as an example. Get a faction one with MR3 extra for 5000 silver. Or buy a Doom one without MR3 for 10 million gold.

How about a faction crimson. The +5 extra dex Faction one costs 2000. The normal one costs 15 million gold.

It is only fair that now PvMers can buy PS off vendors for peanuts. PvMers should be able to get a 120 Magery for 2000 silver. Maybe even less because a mr3 faction crimson is better than an ordinary crimson. Fair is fair.

Actually your argument is severely floored...Most PvPers think the faction arties are stupid and i reckon the majority would ask for them to be removed if they could as points mean nothing!!

As a PvM guild (5th biggest guild in whole of uo :D) i think it would be utterly ridiculous to have scrolls in tram...

As i said in another post on an equaly stupid idea (have a harry in tram!!), after the week of release and every1 has 120 scrolls...

What then???

[PlayerSkillFTW]

Powerscrolls shouldn't of even been introduced in the first place.

Sosaria (What's now known as Fel) has been stripped and raped of almost everything it has since 2000 when Trammel was introduced with UO: Renaissaince. Powerscrolls is practically the only way a hard working PK can make any real money anymore. Trammies now wanting Powerscrolls for no Risk? Damn, they're sounding more like WoW players every day.

PvP has practically lost all the risk in it. What do you lose when you die in PvP? Some insurance gold and some fame, big whoop, about 3-5 monster kills and you got all the gold back, and Glorious Lord/Dread Lord doesn't mean crap anymore, not like it used to. Some guy calls you a newb? Who gives damn, words can only hurt you if you let them. Most PvMers are too lazy to earn something through a little blood, brains and hard work. If you want to enter our one facet, and take something from it, you'd damn well better earn it, and us PvPers are gonna make you earn it.

Back in the day, we didn't just PvP for fun, we didn't just PvP for profit, we PvPed to survive. Anyone who was too timid and/or ignorant to learn how to defend themselves, was asking to be PKed and dry looted.

Is it because you don´t like PVP? Well, just approach it as a hard monster with some different AI then used too

PvP AI isn't "Artificial Intelligence", it's "Actual Intelligence", or used to be for the most part, anyways.

As for the people saying PvPers are a minority, take a look at Darkfall. It already looks as if it will have more players in the first few months than UO has now. Darkfall appeals to PvPers, oldschool UO PvPers the most, since it's heavily influenced by oldschool UO.

[RichDC]

Thats a good post,

I do remember when even PvM was more risky than it is now...much more to lose and alot less to gain!!(apart from the satisfaction of making it!!) Think of doom with no insurance!!!oh the fun that would be!!!

And yet people still want more to gain with even less to lose!!!

[PlayerSkillFTW]

I do remember when even PvM was more risky than it is now...much more to lose and alot less to gain!!(apart from the satisfaction of making it!!) Think of doom with no insurance!!!oh the fun that would be!

I used to sit in the Lich Room of Covetous and kill Liches late at night on my GM LJ Swordsman. One Lich on me, i was alright. Two on me, it was iffy, depending on the combos they pulled off. Three on me, i'd better run out that door like Forrest Gump. You died in Covetous Lich Room, you weren't getting back to your corpse in time to get your stuff before your body decayed (With all your armor/weps/regs/gold/etc on it), not unless you had someone recall outside the Lich Room entrance and rez you. Many a time i had to send out ICQs late at night asking if someone would rez me.

During the middle of the day or the morning, you had to deal with people who would sit there and wait for you to get a Lich near death, then they'd hit it once with a Dagger so they could loot the gold off the Lich without turning grey. That didn't protect a few asshats who tried that one too many times with me, got me a few counts as well as all the gold they collected.

Most of the reds that ran in when i was in the Lich Room tended to leave me alone. Not a whole lot of people wanted to mess with a GM LJ Swordsman wielding a Large Battle Axe. Take about 1/3 a persons life in one whack. Only ones that really did were GM Macers.

[Nylan]

I used to agree that the power scrolls should stay in fel.
It used to be there was no real need for them.
Then they started basing ever thing off 120 instead of 100.
If you had the same chance to cast a spell at 100 as you did at 120 I would say fine, but you don't.

I also don't believe that we need them in trammel so they can be farmed day in and day out.
The last thing we need in the game is something else that can be farmed.

Maybe as was stated earlier, a NPC vendor or a quest that will give individual characters the higher skill cap. But the price would still have to stay high enough that it would make the champ spawns and player vendors still a viable outlet. And if the NPC price followed the same rules as they do now, the popular ones would raise in price as more were bought.

But I do not think I really need to spend 14 to 17 mil on a 120 magery scroll just because a few guilds can control the scroll market.

I understand supply and demand, but I also know that I play this game for fun, and I am not in the habit of having millions of gold, never have and do not think I ever will.

[RichDC]

.

But I do not think I really need to spend 14 to 17 mil on a 120 magery scroll just because a few guilds can control the scroll market.

I understand supply and demand, but I also know that I play this game for fun, and I am not in the habit of having millions of gold, never have and do not think I ever will.

Then dont...go and get one yourself!!!

The way the new drop system works you can no longer Zerg and steal all the scrolls anyway, so give it a go and try your luck...my mage is 5x120 1xgm (scribe) never bought a scroll...and before you say i am DEFINATLY not in a pvp guild, dont believe me hear the crap DC* gets in the great lakes forum in terms of PvP!

[Old Man of UO]

You'd probably get a few more folks into Fel if the PvP culture showed a bit more tact and respect for their fellow player. The Smack talk and complete lack of restraint shown to other players from most of them after they gank some poor fool 6 vs 1 just makes me want to smack the crap out of their parents for not raising their children with a sense of Integrity, Tact, and Honor.


Fel's issue isn't lack of reason to go there, it's lack of civility of the majority of players (Note: Majority does not equal All) that do frequent there.

THAT is it exactly for me! And with the rampant cheating, it's only got worse. I don't mind dying so much as having 3 or 4 players stomping my ghost yelling NOOB! And then follow my ghost saying, "Aww, we're sorry. Let me rez you..."

Well, that and I ping 220's on a normal day... heh, and people complain about pings of 50.

[phantus]

If you have scrolls drop in tram, then who would there be to kill? everyone would do in tram where its safe..
.

You couldn't be more incorrect. The people who do fel spawns would continue to do them as they always have. The problem would be the devaluation of the scrolls themselves. Noone is going to convince me that being able to control who is at the spawn competing with your prize is going to be given up to join a bunch of trammies for the small chance at a crappy 110 with no protection scrolls. Ridiculous.

The power scrolls should be replaced with items not needed by both playstyles. Champ spawns should give PvP centered rewards. Power scrolls are needed by PvE playstyles and shouldn't be a reward for PvP.

If they put in scrolls in tram the champ spawns would garbage and worthless because of the numbers of people competing for the minute chance at a good scroll from 1 of the 6 that dropped.

[RichDC]

I really dont understand why people wouldnt just try to get the scrolls!!!

Seriously its not even that hard!!!

Even at peak times you can walk away with half the scrolls after being raided on the 2nd level!

[Old Man of UO]

... The problem would be the devaluation of the scrolls themselves. ...

I agree with the rest of your post, just not this sentence. What would be wrong with a devaluation, meaning making them available to more of the player base? Why should a 120 mage scroll cost 20mil?

[RichDC]

I agree with the rest of your post, just not this sentence. What would be wrong with a devaluation, meaning making them available to more of the player base? Why should a 120 mage scroll cost 20mil?

why should a crimmy be worth 14?
Why should an orny be worth 10??

BECAUSE THEY ARE SO FRIKING HARD TO GET!!!!

[Gellor]

To quote myself from the harrower post since it applies here also:
I have yet to see a valid reason presented in this post that explains why it SHOULD be available in tram.

The only "excuse" I've seen presented is "whaaa... those mean reds kill us so we have to pay for them".

In tram, you have dozens of ways to earn the 2.5M(or less) to buy a 25 stat scroll: Doom, peerless, l33t PvM loot, etc.

In fel as a red, you have two ways to earn money: scrolls(stat and skill) and killing each other. A LOT of reds aren't set up for straight PvM nor are there the number of "l33t" monsters in Fel as there is in Tram.

I've been on both sides of this in game: as a blue and a red.

I played in a blue guild(two different actually) and we struggled to get our scrolls but boy were they the sweetest items we got... even if they were 110s

I play in a red guild and we zerged the heck out of everything. The PvP is always fun and as mentioned, the scrolls are one of the few ways to signify the battle is done.

Nothing forced me into a red guild other than the chance to play with some friends. I had and have fun playing both styles.

To add something just for this post:
While scrolls are not purely about the PvP, most PvP guilds do them to have a place to PvP without houses, guardzones, and a method to determine a clear winner of an encounter.

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard "Yew is sucking. Let's got fire up a Despise(or Harrower)". Sometimes it works to get people out of Yew... sometimes it doesn't.

[Traveller]

Power scrolls are needed by PvE playstyles

Again this piece of misinfomation. Technically it's correct, PS are required by both playstyles.

But from a practical point of view it's complete disinformation. This is because only up to _+15_ scrolls are _needed_ by pve playstyles. Can you tell me which +15 scroll is not affordable by doing few days of gold farming in trammel?

+20 scrolls are USEFUL for pve, but they do not unlock any new abilty, thus they are not NEEDED.

[RichDC]

Again this piece of misinfomation. Technically it's correct, PS are required by both playstyles.

But from a practical point of view it's complete disinformation. This is because only up to _+15_ scrolls are _needed_ by pve playstyles. Can you tell me which +15 scroll is not affordable by doing few days of gold farming in trammel?

+20 scrolls are USEFUL for pve, but they do not unlock any new abilty, thus they are not NEEDED.

Actually...

I agree, from what i can tel the only 120 scrolls pvm's NEED is bushido/parry all others are pretty much essential for PvP though...

PvM can rack up 100%sdi...PvP 22% (with 100 points in inscription) so you defintaly need as much boost as you can get from 120eval mage!

PvM can easily get away with 115(mayb 110) melee with 45%hci and hit every other time, PvP 115 melee against a mage (with the right set up of course)...*ping* *ping* *hit* *ping* *ping*

[HD2300]

I agree with the rest of your post, just not this sentence. What would be wrong with a devaluation, meaning making them available to more of the player base? Why should a 120 mage scroll cost 20mil?

why should a crimmy be worth 14?
Why should an orny be worth 10??

BECAUSE THEY ARE SO FRIKING HARD TO GET!!!!

FYI in Fel you can get a better Crimson for 2000 silver and a better Orni for 5000 silver.

[RichDC]

FYI in Fel you can get a better Crimson for 2000 silver and a better Orni for 5000 silver.

You still havent explained then with EVERYONE using a faction item ALL pvpers do right!?!

why do they still cost 10+mil??

BECAUSE THERE SO HARD TO GET!!!

[Mistura]

Oh dear! Another one of these threads.

Its never going to happen, stop wasting you breath.

Do some research, build a suit, get some mates together and go into fel. Its not as hard as it first seems. You can do it! Keep the faith!

One love
x

[HD2300]

You still havent explained then with EVERYONE using a faction item ALL pvpers do right!?!

why do they still cost 10+mil??

BECAUSE THERE SO HARD TO GET!!!

Because there are people are still stupid enough to buy them for 10 mil, but in a years time, because of the more uber faction version, they will be worth what 2000 silver is worth.

[Nylan]

Again this piece of misinfomation. Technically it's correct, PS are required by both playstyles.

But from a practical point of view it's complete disinformation. This is because only up to _+15_ scrolls are _needed_ by pve playstyles. Can you tell me which +15 scroll is not affordable by doing few days of gold farming in trammel?

+20 scrolls are USEFUL for pve, but they do not unlock any new abilty, thus they are not NEEDED.

Actually...

I agree, from what i can tel the only 120 scrolls pvm's NEED is bushido/parry all others are pretty much essential for PvP though...

PvM can rack up 100%sdi...PvP 22% (with 100 points in inscription) so you defintaly need as much boost as you can get from 120eval mage!

PvM can easily get away with 115(mayb 110) melee with 45%hci and hit every other time, PvP 115 melee against a mage (with the right set up of course)...*ping* *ping* *hit* *ping* *ping*


Most of my characters have 115 magery, and I can not believe how often they can fizzle at level 8 spells. Regardless of which of my characters I am on I try and rez others all the time and can fail several times in a row.

[RichDC]

Because there are people are still stupid enough to buy them for 10 mil, but in a years time, because of the more uber faction version, they will be worth what 2000 silver is worth.

Not at all your completely wrong...first of, the majority of PvPers i have the unfortune of meeting are NOT in factions and probably wont ever go in faction!!

Plus the MAJORITY of people are trammies so the Demand isnt really going to be affected at all...

The reason they are so expensive is simple Supply (VERY low) and demand (VERY high)

This wont change!!

You just seem to want everything handed on a silver platter!!

I am a trammy but i dont moan about getting pk'd never have never will...Its only a game after all...who really cares about losing some pixilated stacks of gold???

Go and get out there WORK for what you want!!!

[HD2300]

Plus the MAJORITY of people are trammies so the Demand isnt really going to be affected at all...


You would be right if Faction items cant be used in Trammel.

[Traveller]

I agree, from what i can tel the only 120 scrolls pvm's NEED is bushido/parry

?? Why would bushido/parry be needed at 120 for pvm?

all others are pretty much essential for PvP though...

Obviously. Never contested that.

[Wenchkin]

Because there are people are still stupid enough to buy them for 10 mil, but in a years time, because of the more uber faction version, they will be worth what 2000 silver is worth.
Ah, the stupid people. And that pesky 2k silver! What terrors will befall UO next?!

What is preventing you from using gold to buy the items you want?
Nothing

How are players like you blocked from making a thief to steal scrolls, or working the spawns like other players?
You're not.

I offered a simple and more efficient method where you'd get the scroll you wanted straight off and yet that's not good enough. >2k silver = bad mojo. Can't do >2k silver.

Isn't it funny, when you dangle an easy, convenient and simple way for a Tram player to power up their character, they're surprisingly reluctant to agree to it. I suppose it's not as satisfying if you can't screw up Fel at the same time. Or if it takes a degree of effort to farm gold. Odd though, because Tram folks seem to have the gold for other things, and they seem able to go out and hunt monsters the rest of the time. Tram merchants certainly don't charge a mere 2k silver for an arty, even a taskmaster costs more than that!

Maybe you could at least try a little compromise to find a solution that suits Fel and Tram. I think that might be a wee bit easier to achieve than trying to score PS at Fel's expense or shooting for a Tram only shard. Then you can save that 2k silver for something really important.

/sarcasm

Wenchy

[Prince Caspian]

Since this merry go round never resolves itself, instead of posting more about this, I am instead going to use the space to post a recipe.

Cod Parmesan
-=-=-=-=-=-=

You will need:
3-4 cod fillets
1 cup of bread crumbs (plain)
1 cup of parmesan cheese (powdered)
3 cups of milk
1 large onion
2 teaspoons of garlic salt
Dash of pepper
olive oil
1 large baking pan
A container about the length of the fillets
Large mixing bowl


Instructions:
1. Fill the container with milk, and place the fillets inside. Let them soak for at least 30 minutes.
2. Meanwhile, in the large mixing bowl, mix the crumbs, cheese, salt and pepper.
3. Dice the onion.
4. Coat the bottom of the pan lightly with olive oil
5. Scatter some onions and bread crumb mix over the oil.
6. Take the milk-soaked fish and coat them generously in the bread crumb mix.
7. Place the fillets in the pan and cover them with the diced onions.
8. Cook at 325 degrees for about 30 minutes.

Suggested sides: Creamed spinach, au gratin potatoes, french cut green beans.

[phantus]

Power scrolls are needed by PvE playstyles

Again this piece of misinfomation. Technically it's correct, PS are required by both playstyles.

But from a practical point of view it's complete disinformation. This is because only up to _+15_ scrolls are _needed_ by pve playstyles. Can you tell me which +15 scroll is not affordable by doing few days of gold farming in trammel?

+20 scrolls are USEFUL for pve, but they do not unlock any new abilty, thus they are not NEEDED.

Bards and tamers need 120 scrolls to be effective in UO. It's all arguable but it's a moot point. We all know it's not gonna happen regardless because if they removed the scrolls without adding something equally coveted fel would die. 40% of the players is far too many to lose.

[Nexus]

I agree, from what i can tel the only 120 scrolls pvm's NEED is bushido/parry

?? Why would bushido/parry be needed at 120 for pvm?
Tank a peerless while your Tamer buddies go and get rezed. You'll see how useful 120 bushido/parry is.

all others are pretty much essential for PvP though...

Obviously. Never contested that.

I'll contest it. The benefits of having that extra 5 points of skill over 115 can make a huge difference in small groups of players in PvM. 5 points is the difference between a fizzle and a rez at a peerless. That 5 points is a 3% increase in Parry success when using Bushido which can equate to that last second needed for a bandage to fire. It's increased Hit Chance for the Sammy in Vamp form that relies on Life Leech to heal.

[Duskofdead]

All I seem to hear is that the spawns are about the PvP, not the money... Anyone who genuinely cares about PvP will still go to Fel and kill each other anyway, so what harm is brought by making scrolls available in Tram rulesets?

I think they're full of it if they say that, lol. Those magery power scrolls are still being gouged for 8-13 million gold on my shard.

[Duskofdead]

Bards and tamers need 120 scrolls to be effective in UO. It's all arguable but it's a moot point. We all know it's not gonna happen regardless because if they removed the scrolls without adding something equally coveted fel would die. 40% of the players is far too many to lose.

Fel's already pretty dead.

I think assigning 40% of the playerbase to Fel is wildly over-generous.

[Traveller]

Tank a peerless while your Tamer buddies go and get rezed. You'll see how useful 120 bushido/parry is.

The benefits of having that extra 5 points of skill over 115 can make a huge difference in small groups of players in PvM. 5 points is the difference between a fizzle and a rez at a peerless. That 5 points is a 3% increase in Parry success when using Bushido which can equate to that last second needed for a bandage to fire. It's increased Hit Chance for the Sammy in Vamp form that relies on Life Leech to heal.

I rest my case. I can see many useful things there, but nothing essential. No locked abilities just an improvement in percentages, in a forest of "can", "3%", etc...

[Duskofdead]

I rest my case. I can see many useful things there, but nothing essential. No locked abilities just an improvement in percentages, in a forest of "can", "3%", etc...

Have you ever fought these mobs? Every bit of improved percentages helps.

I mean, sure, as an alternative, you could just get 40 0xGM characters to fling themselves in waves at it.. but ... c'mon.

Saying "it CAN be done without any 120'ing" is rather flippant considering the game design's challenge level with ther hardest mobs, clearly counts on you having the 120's, and even then you may die.

[Bardie]

STOP THESE F'N POSTS GEEZ!:gun: either buy them or grow a pair and get em yourself stop crying...

[Duskofdead]

STOP THESE F'N POSTS GEEZ!:gun: either buy them or grow a pair and get em yourself stop crying...

Stop the whines about "bring back open griefing" :gun: Wait, did it work?

[lucitus]

The Devs give you a chance to get more than gold at the trammel spwans, but that is not enough for the Trammy, you give him your hand and he wants the whole arm!

Whats wrong here? Nearly everyday another cry thread?

[Limlight]

I love how people keep bringing up the benefits of Faction items but completely ignore:

1. Only can be healed/rezzed by faction players but can be attacked by anyone.
2. They will go into stat and basically be worthless for like 30 minutes if they die to a faction player.

Seriously, you guys keep bringing up stuff and ignoring their negatives.

Trammies should be happy they have Tram. If the games creator had his way you wouldnt even have that...

[dukarlo]

I dont understand why Trammelites cry so much about not being able to get powerscrolls. What does a Trammelite even need a 120 scroll to begin with? There is absolutely no reason one needs a 120 in pvm. 115s are available very cheap. Powerscrolls are just one small part of building a character. Every other aspect of character building is available in Trammel. If you want a 120 scroll that bad either go do a spawn and take your chances of being pked, or you can actually socialize and go find a good crew of peeps to do a spawn with(you may actually make friends and learn something about pvp) or buy them in Trammel. The bottom line is they are available to anyone who wants to work for it whether earned or bought.

[Ender]

120's are more than just useful in PvM... Ever tried resurrection at below 120 magery? Christ, I have 115 magery and still fizzle four, five times in a row. That's like, 20 seconds or so that I should be able to do something else.

Also, for tamers. 120 vet, lore, and taming gives 3 additional stable slots, which are more than a bit useful. At least, if the pets were balanced right. <_< There's a limit on how many "Weapons" a tamer can have that depends on their skill. Where's the limit on how many weapons a warrior can carry? (holy **** did I just say nerf warriors/defend tamers?)

And, playing on Great Lakes, pretty much everyone that's any kind of decent in PvP or works well with others is already in a guild, and you know how ****ed the PvP is (was? haven't really played in a while) on GL. lol @ thinking you can just get together a group to go do a champ spawn while some of the big bad red guilds use ghost cams, but then again, this is Stratics UHall, people don't really seem to get ideas through their heads very well.

And lol DC is a joke but eh.

[lucitus]

120's are more than just useful in PvM... Ever tried resurrection at below 120 magery? Christ, I have 115 magery and still fizzle four, five times in a row. That's like, 20 seconds or so that I should be able to do something else.

Also, for tamers. 120 vet, lore, and taming gives 3 additional stable slots, which are more than a bit useful. At least, if the pets were balanced right. <_< There's a limit on how many "Weapons" a tamer can have that depends on their skill. Where's the limit on how many weapons a warrior can carry? (holy **** did I just say nerf warriors/defend tamers?)

And, playing on Great Lakes, pretty much everyone that's any kind of decent in PvP or works well with others is already in a guild, and you know how ****ed the PvP is (was? haven't really played in a while) on GL. lol @ thinking you can just get together a group to go do a champ spawn while some of the big bad red guilds use ghost cams, but then again, this is Stratics UHall, people don't really seem to get ideas through their heads very well.

And lol DC is a joke but eh.

Ahh and Great Lakes is the only american shard iam right?

[Ender]

Ahh and Great Lakes is the only american shard iam right?

It's the only one I play on... And I'm pretty sure PvP isn't just screwed on Great Lakes.

[HD2300]

Bards and tamers need 120 scrolls to be effective in UO. It's all arguable but it's a moot point. We all know it's not gonna happen regardless because if they removed the scrolls without adding something equally coveted fel would die. 40% of the players is far too many to lose.

Yes it is unlikely it will change. The balance has shifted in the last 2 years. Maybe it is the PvP mindset at Mythic. DAoC and WAR are PvP. Rewards and content in UO now heavily favour PvP.

There is going to be a shakeup in the market soon. I believe UOs future is brighter when focusing on PvE and retaining and building on this majority of its subscribers. The MMORPG market is roughly 90% PvE, 10% PvP. It is the 90% PvE that UO should target. So it just makes sense to ensure that this majority are happy and have a rewarding end game.

[phantus]

Bards and tamers need 120 scrolls to be effective in UO. It's all arguable but it's a moot point. We all know it's not gonna happen regardless because if they removed the scrolls without adding something equally coveted fel would die. 40% of the players is far too many to lose.

Yes it is unlikely it will change. The balance has shifted in the last 2 years. Maybe it is the PvP mindset at Mythic. DAoC and WAR are PvP. Rewards and content in UO now heavily favour PvP.

There is going to be a shakeup in the market soon. I believe UOs future is brighter when focusing on PvE and retaining and building on this majority of its subscribers. The MMORPG market is roughly 90% PvE, 10% PvP. It is the 90% PvE that UO should target. So it just makes sense to ensure that this majority are happy and have a rewarding end game.

Some of you are underestimating the number of PvP subscribers in games. It's closer to 30% in many MMO's. FPS have bled into the market and MMO producers are trying their best to tap into that market and gain some of those players.

You did hit on something rather important though. UO is gearing more toward PvP and has been on this track more keenly since the acquisition of Mythic. It's no secret that Mythic RvR garbage they spew into every game they produce is trying to make some type of foothold. They are trying to play both sides of the fence and gain back some of the subs they used to have by catering to those like the pvp style of play.

I'm reminded of the story of the dog with a steak. The dog walks down to the river to get a drink but when he looks over the side he sees another dog with a steak. He thinks he can quickly drop his steak and grab the other dogs steak thus having 2 steaks. He is, of course, looking at his reflection and loses the one steak he had. It remains to be seen if Mythic is trying for 2 steaks or not.

[Traveller]

Have you ever fought these mobs? Every bit of improved percentages helps.

You said yourself. It HELPS. And that is all. It is harder, it's not impossible. Everybody here trying to say the opposite is proving my point. Go right ahead guys, way to go. :-)

Really, try to check the dictionary about the meaning of words like "needed". Most people seem to be oblivious of the difference between a "need" and a "help".

[phantus]

You said yourself. It HELPS. And that is all. It is harder, it's not impossible. Everybody here trying to say the opposite is proving my point. Go right ahead guys, way to go. :-)

You're idea that PvE doesn't need 120 scrolls is nothing short of ridiculous and not worthy of debate nor is it even relevant to the topic. Way to go. :sleep2:

[Duskofdead]

You said yourself. It HELPS. And that is all. It is harder, it's not impossible. Everybody here trying to say the opposite is proving my point. Go right ahead guys, way to go. :-)

Really, try to check the dictionary about the meaning of words like "needed". Most people seem to be oblivious of the difference between a "need" and a "help".

If you want to get completely myopic, fine, I can dance that one. You don't "need" scrolls for PvP either. Go out there with 0xGm. I mean, you CAN right? You don't need the scrolls. They just HELP.

So do you have an argument, other than basically sneering that "we got 'em, you don't, why you want 'em anyway?"

[dukarlo]

The fact is you dont need to step 1 foot into Fel to aquire a scroll. Why are people crying when you can pvm in Trammel till your hearts content and aquire a scroll. How? Simply use your profits from pvm in Trammel to buy or barter a scroll in Trammel. I dont pvm in Trammel ever because i cant stand the ruleset. How do i aquire arties or a crimson or whatever else I need for pvp? I barter with the scrolls i get. If your argument is you cant do a spawn thats a load of bs because there are spawns in Trammel. Just no scrolls as the loot. I guarantee by pvming in Trammel one can use there brain a little and figure a way to get a scroll without ever having to face a big bad pk. Go do a peerless, a crimson is worth more than any scroll. Go to doom, an orny is probably tradable for any scroll one desires etc. and those items arent available in Fel. The trammies wanting scrolls argument is just getting repetetive and dumb.

[Duskofdead]

The fact is you dont need to step 1 foot into Fel to aquire a scroll. Why are people crying when you can pvm in Trammel till your hearts content and aquire a scroll. How? Simply use your profits from pvm in Trammel to buy or barter a scroll in Trammel. I dont pvm in Trammel ever because i cant stand the ruleset.

The only thing different in ruleset between Tram and Fel for PvM is looting other people's kills. That's what you can't stand?

[Limlight]

I could do Mel's in fel...I choose not too.

I choose to earn PS's and sell those for money to supply my PvP chars...

You choose to fight in Tram to earn money and buy things.

Stop whining.

By the way...anyone who says you cant do a spawn with a trammel guild is lying.

Great Lakes is crap compared to Atlantic in PvP. Atlantic is full of the most ghost cams and the most cheaters and exploiters and there are still blue guilds that are able to pull off spawns.

Get a brain and some creativity.

Do an Island spawn....do a Tortoise..do a Damwin..do a Bog..do a Khaldun...

Geez...I have done about 3 Coon Spawns at Khaldun in the last 2 months solo...spawn...and Champ...and thats at like 8 PM Central time on the the biggest shard in UO.

Quit whining you babies and grow a pair.

[Nexus]

You said yourself. It HELPS. And that is all. It is harder, it's not impossible. Everybody here trying to say the opposite is proving my point. Go right ahead guys, way to go. :-)

Really, try to check the dictionary about the meaning of words like "needed". Most people seem to be oblivious of the difference between a "need" and a "help".

You don't Need 120 fencing to equip a kryss and attempt to beat someone upside the head with it either but it HELPS

[Brian Bóruma]

Didn't read all the replies


But risk vs reward. If you want the Power Scrolls go to Fel and fight for them. Otherwise buy them in Luna. :lick:

[Traveller]

You're idea that PvE doesn't need 120 scrolls is nothing short of ridiculous

What is really sad is that you are not trolling, you really believe that, do you? Good god... I suppose that the fact that I am doing peerless with one or two firends, with every char without a single 120 is downright impossible then, right? I must be delusional. Or maybe the delusional one is the "need" brigade?

Or your definition of "need" is "I can't solo that peerless so I need a 120"? Maybe you might want to pay for your uberness toys, like everybody else does when buying arties?

Great jumping jehosaphat, I can't even believe people can be so self-centered to believe that they need scrolls otherwise they can't solo something that was not designed to be soloed....

[Wenchkin]

What is really sad is that you are not trolling, you really believe that, do you? Good god... I suppose that the fact that I am doing peerless with one or two firends, with every char without a single 120 is downright impossible then, right? I must be delusional. Or maybe the delusional one is you and the rest of the "need" brigade.

Or your definition of "need" is "I can't solo that peerless so I need a 120"? Maybe you might want to pay for your uberness toys, like everybody else does when buying arties?

Great jumping jehosaphat, I can't even believe people can be so self-centered to believe that they need scrolls otherwise they can't solo something that was not designed to be soloed....
I don't think it's so much a case of believing that there is need for 120 anything. More a case of "need" sounding more deserving than "want". It's like the kid with his mum in the store. If he can work up a reason why he "needs" something, he knows that's much stronger than "I want! I want!"

You notice how the "need" for scrolls always gets pushed before the "need" for things like barding difficulty to get reviewed? I mean there are several ways to address an issue with a skill requirement, not just demand the scrolls spawn on your doorstep. Same with the other things that apparently you "need" 120 for. Oh the inhumanity of fizzling a resurrection! I just broke a nail hitting my macro! *sob*

And nobody can buy or steal a scroll in these threads either.

*shakes head sadly*

We need a fix for defeatism... Badly.

Wenchy

[phantus]

What is really sad is that you are not trolling, you really believe that, do you? Good god... I suppose that the fact that I am doing peerless with one or two firends, with every char without a single 120 is downright impossible then, right? I must be delusional.?


You aren't delusional. You are making something out of nothing. Not everyone can be as cool as you and Wench. I claim to need 120. I don't care of your opinion on the matter and neither do most of the people who have 120's. I have plenty of characters that survive without 120 in theirs skills.

When I say need it is by my definition and not the game you have decided to play with words in order to make some sort of point. Whatever the hell that might be. I don't play games to be mediocre. I play them to be the best. If I want to be the best bard then I need 120 scrolls. If I want to be the best tamer I need 120 scrolls.

BTW..where did you find the 120 asshat scroll?

[Fluffi]

TTL



When are you people going to understand that there are not "Felucca players" and "Trammel players" ??


If I login with my crafter, who is a member of the "Haven Helpers" guild (whos' raison detre is to help newbies by giving them some armour, and taking them hunting), am I a different person to the one who logs-in with my red mage (who will kill you on sight)??

[Traveller]

When I say need it is by my definition

QED.

and not the game you have decided to play with words in order to make some sort of point.

You are confusing cause and effect. Someone in this thread made a false statement ("+20 is needed for pvm"). I merely corrected it.

I don't play games to be mediocre. I play them to be the best.

Sure. And feel free to buy the scrolls that will make you best, exactly like pvpers buy arties farmed in trammel to be best at pvp. Or, as you did, do the spawns and conquer them. There is no "NEED" to make scrolls available in trammel just because everybody wants to be "best" (which actually means everybody would be mediocre).

BTW..where did you find the 120 asshat scroll?

I apologize, apparently I was mistaken. You ARE trolling, after all.

[phantus]

You are confusing cause and effect. Someone in this thread made a false statement ("+20 is needed for pvm"). I merely corrected it.

Incorrect. You are confusing you're opinion for fact. 20's are needed for PvM. That is as much of an opinion as you're statement they are not. No cause and effect. Simple opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.


Sure. And feel free to buy the scrolls that will make you best, exactly like pvpers buy arties farmed in trammel to be best at pvp. Or, as you did, do the spawns and conquer them. There is no "NEED" to make scrolls available in trammel just because everybody wants to be "best" (which actually means everybody would be mediocre).

Why would I do that? They are easy to get. I think you have me confused with a trammy that doesn't go to fel. That is incorrect. I don't buy scrolls, I sell them.(when they actually sell) Not that most are worth the pixels they are printed on anymore. Being the best has nothing to do with wanting scrolls in tram. They are an outdated reward for fel and should be switched with some other reward. Too many playstyle require them to justify them being allocated to a place where few want(the "want" is a very important term)to get them.



I apologize, apparently I was mistaken. You ARE trolling, after all.
Right on both counts.

[Packrat22]

I know that power scrolls are a hot topic. Almost everyday there is a post about them.
1. Ghost cams, 2. cheats being used, 3. one or two guilds overrunning everyone else trying to obtain them. 4. Tram should have them.

You can buy them or fight for them or steal them or find them at IDOC's, but you want them. If you have a +5 you want a +10 or +15 or +20.( or a +25 stat scroll). Most of the time you can not buy the scrolls you want because they are just not available, anywhere.
The demand is not going to go away. Every time UO balances (nerfs) skills, you need to rework your skills. New characters, changes to templates, swapping skills between toons, all use up scrolls.

Rank over, my point of view is, PUT THEM IN TRAMMEL, lower the drop rate by 10%, but leave a chance for all scrolls in Trammel. Everyone farming them in FEL will still be able to sell them because the demand for them is just not being supplied. NOT BEING SUPPLIED!!

[Viper09]

Better question:
Why are powerscrolls the only worthwhile PvM rewards in fel?

Why no artifact spawns like Doom, paragons, etc?

[Traveller]

Incorrect. You are confusing you're opinion for fact. 20's are needed for PvM. That is as much of an opinion as you're statement they are not.

Good position, but lacking in two respects:

1) People here stated such an opinion as if it were a fact. THIS is what I am reacting.

2) There TWO facts in this discussion, not the only one you seem to stipulate: A) that +20 are useful in pvm; you stipulate to that. B) high-end content can be defeated by two or three players with only +10 or +15. This fact has a specific name in logic: "counter-example". It is enough to invalidate any opinion that would deny it. Of course feel free to open a discussion about the meaning of that the terms "need" and "require" should assume in this forums. Until you get agreement, I will stipulate to a pretty standard definition: A is required to do B, if you cannot accomplish B without A.

Sure. And feel free to buy the scrolls that will make you best, exactly like pvpers buy arties farmed in trammel to be best at pvp. Or, as you did, do the spawns and conquer them. There is no "NEED" to make scrolls available in trammel just because everybody wants to be "best" (which actually means everybody would be mediocre).


Why would I do that? They are easy to get. I think you have me confused with a trammy that doesn't go to fel.

Also, feel free to read the stuff you quote.

[RichDC]

It's the only one I play on... And I'm pretty sure PvP isn't just screwed on Great Lakes.

And im pretty sure you dont have a clue what your talking about!!

I have never gona above 110 magery on my tamer...he manages to res near enough EVERY time!!can cast pretty much every spell ALL the time!!

you may consider DC* to be a joke but many of the people (especially all of them in it!) on the shard would say different unless you count the amount of people we constantly annoy by jus being down right better than them at almost every aspect of the game(all except pvp and they even give us respect for not moaning and whining like lil girls :sad2:why cant we get pwerscrolls:sad2:leave us along nasty red people:sad2:!!!)

My point, which you seem to not understand, is that 120 powerscrolls are NOT needed (to be fair not even in PvP) they are usefull yes but not NECCESSARY

[Tomas_Bryce]

120's are more than just useful in PvM... Ever tried resurrection at below 120 magery? Christ, I have 115 magery and still fizzle four, five times in a row. That's like, 20 seconds or so that I should be able to do something else.



Exaggerate much?

[Maplestone]

I'd point out that character development isn't about need, it's about "there is a path there, it must be followed". A Trammie is likely to want a 120 not because it makes the character better but simply because it is there.

That said, we true blue Trammies simply have a very different endgame for getting scrolls - for us it's about accumulating enough wealth to buy them. It's an economic endgame rather than an adventuring endgame.

Trammies are not going to be impressed with arguments that trash-talk them. It's counter productive in a thread like this, because it's just going to make them more frustrated at having to be depend on PvPers.

Trammies often detest grinding for gold as much as anyone. And if I ever get a crimson, I'd like to keep it rather than sell it.

The whole setup guarentees that there will always be friction between different playstyles, but to any of my fellow Trammies who get frustrated, I would remind you that the character-development requirements of PvP are more extreme than PvM and they don't have many options to play anything that could be called low-end with a less-than-maxed character.

[the 4th man]

Pfft there was a lack of tact from a large part of the playerbase before fel. That's why we got Tram.

Before felucca? No, before felucca there was no UO, at an online game.
(typical mentality)
I agree that the playerbase of felucca is the "I'm the bully attitude. I will kill your characters, because I can."

Well....keep your punk smack talk bs, that's why you see mostly (not always)
those large gang-banging guilds raiding champ spawns and monopolizing the racket.

But lo and behold, do your history 1st before you post so you won't look like a jackass...Lord British, or whoever that guy was, had trammel existing long before UO went online.


deal with felly.

[Goldberg-Chessy]

I play in Tram more than Fel, but seriously Fel needs a FEW extra perks to get people there... even if champs are the only place to find fel ppl.

You'd probably get a few more folks into Fel if the PvP culture showed a bit more tact and respect for their fellow player. The Smack talk and complete lack of restraint shown to other players from most of them after they gank some poor fool 6 vs 1 just makes me want to smack the crap out of their parents for not raising their children with a sense of Integrity, Tact, and Honor.


Fel's issue isn't lack of reason to go there, it's lack of civility of the majority of players (Note: Majority does not equal All) that do frequent there.

Only a total fool believes that any percentage of Trammel players have more integrity, tact or honor.

Spend 5 minutes at Brit bank or any popular hunting ground in Trammel on any shard and you will see more griefing and spamming and kill stealing then you could imagine.

Honor? - Try to make a deal with some spamming fool in Luna bank only to have him totally break the deal 5 seconds later cuz someone ran up and offered him 50k more gold(even though he already agreed to your price and you have a trade window up)
Tact? - Try to tame a killer Greater Dragon or Cu that you clearly saw/attempted first only to have 2 other kids run up and try to tame themselves or kill it
Integrity? - Ever wander around Luna or Trammel shops and actually look at all the duped or scam items? Do you really believe that it is only Fel players running these kinds of shops? Lol. If so your parents raised a fool Imo.


The only difference between Tram & Fel is that in Trammel all the bs is allowed to go unchecked while in Felucca in some cases you at least have the option of attacking the offending player. Not a perfect system but a hell of a lot better then standing around in Trammel for 18 hours waiting for a non existent GM to show up after you page on a griefer.

[HD2300]

Here is how I see it. If you want more people in Fel, you need to lower the barriers for people to be competitive in Fel. That means cheaper items and cheaper powerscrolls.

We already have cheap items like uber Faction Crimsons going for 2000 silver. If it makes sense to level the playing field and allow players to be more competitive with cheap items, then this should extend also to allowing people to get PS for cheap.

Replace PS in Fel with something equally valuable like deco items that change every 3 months. Collectors and decorators will go nuts over them because they are RARE.

[RichDC]

And here is how i see it,

Get of your arse stop moaning and learn how to be competitive in fel!!!

The reason that you..and i are not competitive is not as much to do with the items as it is to do with the fact those felucians have been applying there trade for more than 10yrs!!!

They are organised!!And the most part very skillfull!

I guarantee you could hook yourself up with the most UBER mage equiptment (all 70's 2/6casting 12mr 45%lmc 18hpr) and you would STILL get your buttcheeks handed to you!!!

I suppose tho then you would find something else like...this person hacked to beat me!!!

[Limlight]

Whatever happened to people just being better at something?

Everytime someone dies now days..."its haxorz"

Fel is where the Scrolls are....deal with it and get better.

Like I already said..I was a complete trammelite and I loved Tram at first and didnt want to leave....and I got my ace handed to me for several years...

I am still only a average or slightly above average mage...but I can hold my own with everyone except the top tier mages (Paith, Cal..etc) who just steamroll over me...but I atleast keep trying.

Its not that hard...and like I said...I have done several solo champs by myself in the last few months...on ATLANTIC. The biggest shard.

All I see Trammelites doing is making excuses to not have to learn a new playstyle.

Example: I know people who can solo the peerless champs. (Mel, Dread..etc)...which amazes me...and I cannot do it...but those same people I have seen get owned in PvP. I want to learn how to solo a peerless, but it will take work and I am not going to whine about the people who have the skill to do it and the benefits they reap.

[HD2300]

And here is how i see it,

Get of your arse stop moaning and learn how to be competitive in fel!!!

...

I guarantee you could hook yourself up with the most UBER mage equiptment (all 70's 2/6casting 12mr 45%lmc 18hpr) and you would STILL get your buttcheeks handed to you!!!


If they are scrolled up and have a decent suit they would be more competitve and more likely to go to Fel. I assume you want more people in Fel, so remove the barriers and more people will go to Fel.

[RichDC]

Im a trammy, i only go to fel to spawn.

I dont see any barriers apart from a persons willingness to learn and not have everything handed to them on a silver platter!!!

Felucia is a hard place but the rewards are great, thats why we dont spawn in trammel (20 people on a spawn in tram/ilsh compared to 5 in fel) meaning if we do survive we get a higher drop rate...we are learning the way to be more competitive the ONLY barrier is peoples safety net (trammel) and not willing to go out of there comfort zone

[HD2300]

I dont see any barriers apart from a persons willingness to learn and not have everything handed to them on a silver platter!!!


There are 3 barriers. Suit, PS and Experience. If your naked with 0 resists, you not going to last long. If your a 110 archer or 110 dexer, again you are at a RNG disadvantage to a 120 archer or dexer. EA is already allowing people to build decent suits with Faction arties such as uber Crimsons, Ornis etc for cheap. They should extend it to also PS, but they wont for now anyway.

[Limlight]

There are 3 barriers. Suit, PS and Experience. If your naked with 0 resists, you not going to last long. If your a 110 archer or 110 dexer, again you are at a RNG disadvantage to a 120 archer or dexer. EA is already allowing people to build decent suits with Faction arties such as uber Crimsons, Ornis etc for cheap. They should extend it to also PS, but they wont for now anyway.

How exactly do you think the person with 120 got to 120?
Because the way I see it, he either:
A. Was 110 like you at one time working for a 120.
B. Bought the 120 from someone else like you are complaining about.

Suit - Can easily be built in tram.
PS - Can buy it or earn it like I explained above. (We all have to earn it)
Experience - How do you get experience? Fighting and PvPing.
Bitching about less experience does you nothing. Fighting/dying gives you experience.

My advice to you. Load up on pots, apples and go to fel...attack someone you think looks weaker than most and practice staying alive more then winning. Develop defensive instincts first and once you have that down....work on killing them.

[Gellor]

Limlight is pretty much hitting it on the head.

To add to that, the only real places that 120 makes a difference in PvP is where it is YOUR skill vs THEIR skill... for example combat skills, eval(or spirit) vs resists) But given most people don't run resist, eval/spirit is more about damage.

Magery is doable with 110 since in PvP you are mostly throwing around level 1-6 spells. Higher magery does help with heals but it isn't huge(1-3 points between 110 and 120).

Suits can be built by Trammies just as they are built by the PKers. So not having the l33t suit excuse goes out the window.

The only thing that Trammies are at a disadvantage for is experience and desire.

Limlight hits the nail on the head for experience. Go into Fel and work on staying alive. Once you understand how to stay alive, work on killing those evil PKs.

The lack of desire is the only excuse that is left. And if that is the excuse, then the PKs "excuse" of not desiring to PvM for their money is JUST as valid. And as such, they need their own unique way of earning money.. ie scrolls:scholar:

[Limlight]

:-]

and frankly...if the excuses are:
"Its too hard"
"I dont want to put in that kind of effort"

Then stay in Tram. You begged for it...you got it. Stay there and enjoy it.
But dont come complaining when extra stuff is giving to people who are willing to try new things and venture out.

[Sephy]

You couldn't be more incorrect. The people who do fel spawns would continue to do them as they always have. The problem would be the devaluation of the scrolls themselves. Noone is going to convince me that being able to control who is at the spawn competing with your prize is going to be given up to join a bunch of trammies for the small chance at a crappy 110 with no protection scrolls. Ridiculous.

The power scrolls should be replaced with items not needed by both playstyles. Champ spawns should give PvP centered rewards. Power scrolls are needed by PvE playstyles and shouldn't be a reward for PvP.

If they put in scrolls in tram the champ spawns would garbage and worthless because of the numbers of people competing for the minute chance at a good scroll from 1 of the 6 that dropped.


I kinda agree and disagree, my point didn't really come out as I ment it so I will try again.

right, people do spawns for even pvp (raids) or scrolls, now if your needing scrolls you will spawn for them, if you need cash you will also spawn to sell scrolls. This makes people come to fel, and this makes people check spawns.

If tram gets scrolls also, then people will be like.. hang on.. we can work this spawn for 20mins to an hour, and as soon as the champ gets up risk being raided and wasting all that hard work OR we can go tram, do the spawn and not have to worry about much apart from other people hitting the champ without you being able to do anything but at least you have a chance to get them, apart from the no chance against the current guild who runs the spawns on your server.

I think more people will have an excuse not to go to fel.

This in turn, effects the people who spawn for PVP or raid spawns, there will be less and less people fel spawning because there sick of being raided at the last min.

This game needs more and more FEL based perks, not less, FEL is starting to lose the battle to TRAM, if you have noticed since the repica's have come out, everyone is doing tram spawns constantly everywhere so they have the chance to get a repica to use / sell, and if your wanting one that drops in fel only then there prolly more likley to sell the replicas they dont want and buy the one they do want.

since replica's tram spawns usage went from less than 0.1% of the uo community doing them to well over 50% heck maybe even more. So the scrolls are gona be dropping like candy meaning a flood in the market, huge price drops so people dont even need to spawn for there 120 scrolls anymore if you can pick them up insanly cheap.

I think just a whole load of things will make it so people will not wana fel spawn (apart from the current guild who runs the server, they will have free run like they always have) but a lack of pvp.. I mean who wants to go to yew gate? we all do it, but we all hate it and would rather pvp out of guards and actually choke fight sometimes

[Sephy]

How exactly do you think the person with 120 got to 120?
Because the way I see it, he either:
A. Was 110 like you at one time working for a 120.
B. Bought the 120 from someone else like you are complaining about.

Suit - Can easily be built in tram.
PS - Can buy it or earn it like I explained above. (We all have to earn it)
Experience - How do you get experience? Fighting and PvPing.
Bitching about less experience does you nothing. Fighting/dying gives you experience.

My advice to you. Load up on pots, apples and go to fel...attack someone you think looks weaker than most and practice staying alive more then winning. Develop defensive instincts first and once you have that down....work on killing them.

best advice and how everyone starts out, people should learn and not complain <3

[GalenKnighthawke]

For what it's worth, not much I know, I have gone back and forth on this one.

As of this particular moment, my thinking is that it's cool to see something "from an exotic land" that you never go to.

This means no power scrolls in Trammel, no Doom artifacts in Felucca, etc.

-Galen's player

[Wenchkin]

There are 3 barriers. Suit, PS and Experience. If your naked with 0 resists, you not going to last long. If your a 110 archer or 110 dexer, again you are at a RNG disadvantage to a 120 archer or dexer. EA is already allowing people to build decent suits with Faction arties such as uber Crimsons, Ornis etc for cheap. They should extend it to also PS, but they wont for now anyway.
Not true... A thief wearing the most basic suit (mine wears NPC clothing only) and no more than GM skills, is perfectly capable of snagging a scroll at a champ spawn. My lass has added a few insured items as she got better, but when I started out she just kept on running back in there to keep trying.

It takes even less to snag things from the ground :D

Wenchy