BOS Do You Use them?

[Amathist of PoC]

It has been awhile since the changes to the BOS where made, I was just curious if people have completely stopped using them, what the thoughts on this are now and basically the points of view on the bos changes a few months down the track.

[yanaki2]

ummm whats a BOS?

[Connor_Graham]

I don't use them at all, and don't miss them a bit. I still loot everything I kill and take all of the gold. The only difference is now I'm not having to buy a BoS and powder from someone's overpriced vendor in Luna for them, so overall I end up with more gold in the long run. Also note that 99% of my hunting is done in Ilsh.

[Dermott of LS]

...

I've stopped using them completely, as well as stopped doing the translocation powder quest.

The only change I've made is that I don't tend to do ant lions as much, and I make a few extra trips to dump loot at the house or bank, whichever is closer at the time.

[azmodanb]

ummm whats a BOS?

Bag of Sending... is a BOS... and no they are horrible now.

[DHMagicMan_1]

I'm thinking BoS is Bag of Sending??

When I stopped playing years ago I loved sending stuff to the bank and yesterday I was reading they changed it so it uses charges based on weight of what you are sending, effectivly making it useless for miners to send stacks of ore or whatever...

I have some bags but don't know what I'll use them for now that I've come back to start playing again.

[Amathist of PoC]

ummm whats a BOS?

A BOS or a Bag of Sending was an item gained by doing a solen quest you could fill the bag with charges of translocation powder also gained from solen questing.

And this bag allowed you to transfer items and gold to your bank box using one charge of powder per send but you could send large amounts of gold and one item at a time.

It basically stopped you getting over loaded and allowd you to go out and hunt for gold and items without needing to return to the towns so often.

Someone else may be able to explain it better but that is the basics of a BOS.

[Connor_Graham]

I have some bags but don't know what I'll use them for now that I've come back to start playing again.

Turn them in for Spring Cleaning points. I had around 20 of the things when it was announced they could be turned in and dumped all of them for the points.

[yanaki2]

ohh i get it, bags of sending.... way too many abreviations in this game now adays.... id like to see them changed back as doing normal hunting in any of the arias where you cant return easily or get into easily make them not worth going to. i see many parts of fel dungeons, and ish locales very empty.. i myself have left several hundred k in dungeons becuase i just couldnt carry it

[Ivan - MT]

I use to use them all the time since it was a very useful item. Since they nerfed it to hell I tossed all I had in the garbage can and have not used one since the nerf was made.

[Amathist of PoC]

I am the same as alot of you I use to make sure every character had one and it was charged before going on a big hunt.......now I don't bother but I have also noticed my characters are alot broker then they where because I just cant be bothered going in and out in and out so once I fill up I recall out bank and usually move onto something else.

Do you think allowing us to Mark runes in Illishnar would help the BOS or should they just revert it back to what it was...perhaps making the quest a little harder?

[Lord Sir Scott]

Now and then for small things, if i happen to have one really handy...

[Dermott of LS]

...

No! Do NOT allow Marking in Ilshenar.

There are plenty of bank spots in Ilsh that make it OBSCENELY profitable even without a BOS. One of which is right near an EASILY one-hittable monster spawn with a bank no more than 4 screens' distance and a shrine/gate a small run beyond.

[Flora Green]

Not anymore. Connor, thanks for the reminder they can be turned in for points. :)

[Ailish]

Nope - since the place I used them before was champ spawns, they are no longer worth my time. Now I dont even bother picking up the gold. It can sit and rot before I go thru the headach of taking it to the bank.

The exception to this is the Desert Champ area- so close to the bank I may as well :)

[Amathist of PoC]

...

No! Do NOT allow Marking in Ilshenar.

There are plenty of bank spots in Ilsh that make it OBSCENELY profitable even without a BOS. One of which is right near an EASILY one-hittable monster spawn with a bank no more than 4 screens' distance and a shrine/gate a small run beyond.


*chuckles* you know your right, I just never think of Ilishenar having banks honestly till I read your post and thought about it I do not think I ever consciously realized there were banks and mage shops and animal tamers I could use in Illish.........slow I know.

[Viquire]

Non blessed 10th ani items dropped in fel, yep that's useful to me. They are just a much more limited purpose item now.

They and the powder still sell.

[tjalle]

Yes, I still use them for various items. I for one am glad they made the change...

[K'torr]

Actually, just last night, I took all my BOSs, about 6, and my Pet Balls, about 9, and witnessed first hand how good they look stored in my House's Trash Barrel.

[Shelleybean]

I have stopped using them completely. I'm still angry about the nerf.

[Draxous]

Actually, just last night, I took all my BOSs, about 6, and my Pet Balls, about 9, and witnessed first hand how good they look stored in my House's Trash Barrel.

I have over 100 of each... I'm glad to know they will make me some clout in spring cleaning... and no, I don't use them anymore... used to for cleaning up the gold at champ spawns, but now a horde minion does the trick.

Dumbest change ever... should of been altered so they couldn't send gold back at all... but other items work the way they used to... that's what I really was hoping for. Of course that didn't happen.

[MalagAste]

Well ...... I had one or two on every character pretty much.... and I must say since the change..... I don't carry a single one anymore... they have become totally useless. Don't loot much gold anymore either why bother? I spend more time recalling back and forth to a bank than I actually do hunting since the change...... Tossed most mine in a chest... haven't touched them since... but thanks Connor for reminding me I can toss them out for points..

[Doomsday Dragon]

Bags of sending are worthless. They weren't all that great before but now they are just another junk item no one wants at all.

Would it not have been better to simply change the way GOLD is sent through the bag? Why make everything sent consume so many charges. I would have been in favor of stopping gold from being sent and allowing everything else to be sent as it could before.

[T_Amon_from_work]

BOS? Oh yeah, them things. They went the way of the T-Rex. When I get loaded up, I dispose of whatever and pack it in for the night.

[Cogniac]

I never used Bags of Sending to begin with. I was fairly pissed when they were introduced, because it ruined my near-monopoly on the Harrower gold spray. I used to be the only person willing to run down to the bottom of dungeons over and over to get at it. Then they introduced the Bags of Sending and it was all hoovered up less than 10 seconds after the Harrower fell.

[Thrand Graywolf]

Don't use em anymore, they are worthless as is.

The only change is that now, when I do go out hunting specifically for gold I don't stop when my bag runs out of charges...so I tend to make more gold.

And as a group we've had to abandon places you can't jump to a bank and get back to the party...the no-recall locations like Terathan Keep and the Ilshenar dungeons. Which is beyond irritating, since those were some of my favorite group hunting spots. But running in and out of the dungeon every few minutes is simply not practical.

[Bomb Bloke]

I used to use them. Crammed 25k in my pack, one single charge and away it all went. Lovely. I'd done the quest for powder a few times (as opposed to several or above), and ended up with so much of the stuff I doubted I'd ever use it all.

Now I just frequent areas with easy bank access. Well, as it turns out I'd already been doing that, I'd just been using the bags anyway...

Still, it would be nice to be able to venture down into the Fel dungeons without the knowledge I'd be overloaded within a quarter hour.

Non-tamers/summoners can always ride a pack bug around. Those can carry 80k on their own, but granted you can only ride them at walking speed once they've been loaded to a certain point.

[Kariny]

I take one when I am in a nonrecall dungeon for drops or cursed stuff. I find it easier to loose the bos in fel also than the pos or arty.

Most of mine went for the turn in since I can no longer use them most of the time. I keep the powder on hand though for my pet summoning balls.

[Amathist of PoC]

Do you think they will ever change the BOS back or re assess them and perhaps make them more usable?

[Beefybone]

No. The old bags of sending were a horrible idea and broke the game by giving everyone effectively infinite inventory space.

[Amathist of PoC]

BoS were always around during my time of play so I can not comment on what it was like before and or if they broke the game.. I know in some cases they made it easier for scripters but I just feel they should have worked harder on making it harder for them not making it harder for everyone else to gather up some spending money. I guess over time it might drive some of those HUGE luna prices down.

[It Lives]

I miss mine.

I still have a great time with or without them. I use one here and there to send arties back.

[Radun]

way too many abreviations in this game now adays....
QFT:hahaha:

[Richtor Darkbane]

They are fairly useless after the changes, I understand they changed them because of gold farmers, and like everything else the honest player is the one who suffers in the end.

[peanutbutter]

anybody who would make use of a bos is a gold farmer. in fact, we are all gold farmers... just, some are better at it.

think about that.

[QueenZen]

I do not use them any longer since they nerfed em.

But then I seldom used those very often before unless farming gold or hides on some guild hunt ...or just myself trying to gather hides or other resources. But although they were handier to send more stones worth of one item before such as heavy bulk hides to my bank..now the BOS are pretty useless for my chrs. to even bother with using or fooling with.

It would have been nicer if they just nerfed scripters, instead of nerfing useful in game skills or things for bandage fixes for scripters scripting.
:sad4:

[QueenZen]

They are fairly useless after the changes, I understand they changed them because of gold farmers, and like everything else the honest player is the one who suffers in the end.


QFT *tosses in blackrock elementals that punished the innocent*

[Amathist of PoC]

anybody who would make use of a bos is a gold farmer. in fact, we are all gold farmers... just, some are better at it.

think about that.

we all may farm gold from time to time but we are not all "gold farmers" who are those who script and use bots and bos to gain an unfair economical advantage.

[Richtor Darkbane]

anybody who would make use of a bos is a gold farmer. in fact, we are all gold farmers... just, some are better at it.

think about that.

I'm sorry I should have said "gold scripters" instead of gold farmers, because I was referring to those who would use illegal scripts and BoS (on a massive scale) to mass gather gold for the purpose of exploit or profit. I was not referring to the casual player who used the BoS to send gold to their bank box while hunting in dungeons.

[Farscape]

I have stopped using them completely. I'm still angry about the nerf.

Ditto:gun: yet another easy way out of a problem

[Zodiac19]

Not any more. I realy only used them once in a while before. My main thing was farming and selling the powders which I was making a killing on.

[Mitzlplik_SP]

Didn`t use them before the nerf and don`t use them now.

[Yalp]

never use em myself now either...

seems to me.. the nerf was EA's lazy way out of dealing with scripters... instead of doing their jobs on reported scripters, they ignored them and nerfed something that hurt them.. yes.. but hurt every player in the game too.

another fine example of great customer service.

[Thangorodrim]

It has been awhile since the changes to the BOS where made, I was just curious if people have completely stopped using them, what the thoughts on this are now and basically the points of view on the bos changes a few months down the track.

I never used one and never will.

As implemented, they were a moronic concept delivered by a team that had a propensity for introducing candy without thought for the consequences.

Good riddance.

No modifications to Ilshenar are indicated over the BoS.

[Connor_Graham]

Not anymore. Connor, thanks for the reminder they can be turned in for points. :)

You're welcome. Always glad to help out. :scholar:

:D

Btw....Pet Balls can also be turned in for points, just in case anyone didn't know that.

[RenaLynne]

No, I dont use them anymore. I used to use them when out hunting and during the Magincia rubble event. Now all the bags I had in bank boxes, home, and in packs I turned in for points. There were worth more using em for that.

[Infiniti]

I have stopped using them completely. I'm still angry about the nerf.

Same here. I understand their reasoning but I don't agree with the way it was handled. Afterall, the scripters are still out there and from what I've been reading on these boards nothing is stopping them.:coco:

[Kith Kanan]

I used to use em , now I just leave gold on the floor to be picked up by who ever can be bothered to haul it along.. I sure as hell cant...


wish gold was auto looted into ya bank

[Ni-]

I didn't use them all that much when they were 'useful'. I would carry one on most of my chars incase i got greedy and over weighted by a curse. Then I would send gold to allow movement. Other than that I wouldn't bother. I haven't power gamed very often. Gold isn't what defines me or makes me happy.

Simple answer... No I don't use them.

:)

[Lord Drakelord]

It has been awhile since the changes to the BOS where made, I was just curious if people have completely stopped using them, what the thoughts on this are now and basically the points of view on the bos changes a few months down the track.


We quit using them altogether, we also quit travely to places to farm our gold that require longs walks back to when we have to recall to the bank to drop gold off. Most of our gold farming is now early in the day, at lower levels of the Trammel Anti virtue dungeons. We still use the pet balls and the translocation powder, so a market for them is there still, but the BOS has seen its days now, and unless they made a change on the BOS to where it used less charges for more weight we will continue to farm our gold without it.

I can carry out 15k on my tamer and the wife's tamer can carry out 20k [she carries less bandaids then I do] ;) When we join the guild for events not in Trammel, we don't bother looting the gold, and will normally leave it on the bodies.

[Limlight]

I use them all the time at IDOCS...

[Beefybone]

We had this debate back at the time of the nerf, and it was pretty clear that it was a lot of crybabies who felt entitled to farm gold from login to logout while carrying half of everything they own in their pack for no reason. Basically, people who had gotten used to infinite inventory space.

One female poster who's name I won't mention screeched indignantly about how she had to bank every 7k gold. I did the math, and it was clear that she was setting out to hunt carrying 100+ stones more weight than my necro warrior carries with multiple weapons and a full load of regs.

I had a moderator who's name I also won't mention complaining about how long it took to get anywhere in Ilshenar. Until I told him to name a location so I could time the run. He named the back end of some horribly distant and obscure dungeon, and I still went from there to Umbra bank in just under 2 minutes.

Look, if you don't want to bother emptying the junk out of your pack to make room for gold, and you don't want to bother learning how to ride anywhere quickly, then just hunt somewhere besides Ilshenar. Go sit at swoops all day or whatever you people do. Me, I do almost all of my hunting in Ilshenar, and the few minutes I spend running to the bank are WAY less than the time I spent riding/flying EVERYWHERE in WoW when I played it.

If you want to farm gold from login to logout with zero interruptions and zero travel time, there is absolutely no MMO on the market for you. None.

[TullyMars]

Wow looking through this thread I may be one of the last people that use bags of sending for gold still. Generally I bring 4 fully charged bags of sending on my hour long guild hunt when we our going to something that I should not bring my beetle to. My guild mates usually wonder how I banked 60k(15k per bag sent through) plus whatever esle I can carry (usually another 18k) on the hunt without recalling out.
I do spend an hour a week doing solen quests for trans powder so I do not incur a cost of buying trans powder from a vendor.
If you can find a vendor that sells transpowder for 100 to 125 gold each then think of it as a 20% stocking fee for the convenience of continuing the hunt on bothered.
Of course most vendors sell trans powder at 500 gold or more which makes it useless to send gold through bags of sending. (1 charge sends 500 gold and since it would cost 500 gold to replace charge = useless)

[GreywolfUK]

Dont use them now, was good while it lasted, but like all things useful they eventually get nerf'd back to the stone age.

Now only if they could NERF UO completely back to pre AoS then it would be a step in the right direction.

[Connor_Graham]

We had this debate back at the time of the nerf, and it was pretty clear that it was a lot of crybabies who felt entitled to farm gold from login to logout while carrying half of everything they own in their pack for no reason. Basically, people who had gotten used to infinite inventory space.

One female poster who's name I won't mention screeched indignantly about how she had to bank every 7k gold. I did the math, and it was clear that she was setting out to hunt carrying 100+ stones more weight than my necro warrior carries with multiple weapons and a full load of regs.

I had a moderator who's name I also won't mention complaining about how long it took to get anywhere in Ilshenar. Until I told him to name a location so I could time the run. He named the back end of some horribly distant and obscure dungeon, and I still went from there to Umbra bank in just under 2 minutes.

Look, if you don't want to bother emptying the junk out of your pack to make room for gold, and you don't want to bother learning how to ride anywhere quickly, then just hunt somewhere besides Ilshenar. Go sit at swoops all day or whatever you people do. Me, I do almost all of my hunting in Ilshenar, and the few minutes I spend running to the bank are WAY less than the time I spent riding/flying EVERYWHERE in WoW when I played it.

If you want to farm gold from login to logout with zero interruptions and zero travel time, there is absolutely no MMO on the market for you. None.

Believe it or not.......I concur.

[Amathist of PoC]

Wow looking through this thread I may be one of the last people that use bags of sending for gold still. Generally I bring 4 fully charged bags of sending on my hour long guild hunt when we our going to something that I should not bring my beetle to. My guild mates usually wonder how I banked 60k(15k per bag sent through) plus whatever esle I can carry (usually another 18k) on the hunt without recalling out.
I do spend an hour a week doing solen quests for trans powder so I do not incur a cost of buying trans powder from a vendor.
If you can find a vendor that sells transpowder for 100 to 125 gold each then think of it as a 20% stocking fee for the convenience of continuing the hunt on bothered.
Of course most vendors sell trans powder at 500 gold or more which makes it useless to send gold through bags of sending. (1 charge sends 500 gold and since it would cost 500 gold to replace charge = useless)


I can't say I had done the math on how much I could send with the new changes or how much it would cost to recharge a bag - but from reading your post it seems HARDER yes but still feasible to use them.

[Aroma]

Yes i do still use them i send my hard won blight back from fel mel's..

[Masuri]

I stopped using them after they were nerfed into uselessness, along with everyone else I know who hadn't long since quit. Before that I used them to send gold and hide to the bank, saving myself boring and tedious travel time from places like Ilsh. Just one more brainless decision by the devs.

Edited to quote this:

If you want to farm gold from login to logout with zero interruptions and zero travel time, there is absolutely no MMO on the market for you. None.

There's also no other MMO on the market where the cash you accrue in the span of 15 minutes is enough to over-encumber you. In fact, I can't think of a modern MMO I've ever played in which money weighed anything, or in which a handful of hides weighed so much to drive away casual harvesters. Those are single-player notions, that belong in games such as Morrowind; the original BOS was a means of bringing UO up to speed with standard MMO ideas. Nerfing it was an insult to players, who knew that it was not just a step down for UO, but who also knew that it was a lazy stop-gap solution to a perceived problem which wouldn't even work but would hurt everyone else anyway.

[Beefybone]

http://gallery.koroded.net/d/32934-2/emo.jpg

This is what I mean by crybaby. It's not just an ill-considered nerf, it's an INSULT. Lawl.

Seriously, have you played WoW or any other mainstream MMO? It's real easy to spend half an hour just going from Point A to Point B. Meanwhile in UO, anyone with a runebook and reflexes faster than an elderly sloth can recall-bank-recall in half a minute or less.

Tell you what, you can have your BoS back to normal, but only if we delete recall and make everyone who isn't a mage walk EVERYWHERE. Just like all those other games.

[Amathist of PoC]

http://gallery.koroded.net/d/32934-2/emo.jpg

This is what I mean by crybaby. It's not just an ill-considered nerf, it's an INSULT. Lawl.

Seriously, have you played WoW or any other mainstream MMO? It's real easy to spend half an hour just going from Point A to Point B. Meanwhile in UO, anyone with a runebook and reflexes faster than an elderly sloth can recall-bank-recall in half a minute or less.

Tell you what, you can have your BoS back to normal, but only if we delete recall and make everyone who isn't a mage walk EVERYWHERE. Just like all those other games.

WHY no one has asked for UO to be like any other main stream MMO, we have just said that we do not like changes that where made to our MMO not asking for them to implement something we did not have at one time or to change it to make it like any other MMO just that we do not agree with a change that was made because no only did it make it harder on scripters for about 2min it made it harder on everyone else for well for ever now unless they change it again.

That does not make anyone a cry baby it makes them having an opinion about the game they play not comparing it to other mmo's and asking for the same as them or complaining that our game has something less then them or better...the only one comparing and complaining about the differences would be you...you like other MMO's and what they offer and how hard they make it YIPEEE happy for you. But I choose to pay and play UO not WOW or any other MMO and there for have an opinion on what changes are made to the game just as I am sure everyone else does.

If you can not respect that stay out of the forums that discuss opinions because just because someone has one that differs from yours does not automatically make them a "cry baby" even if you have cute cat pictures - that just makes you insulting and incapable of accepting anyone else point of view.

[Beefybone]

The introduction of BoS was a horrible mistake in the first place. The only shame was in letting them go on for so long.

[Thangorodrim]

The introduction of BoS was a horrible mistake in the first place. The only shame was in letting them go on for so long.

Same goes for recall.

If there was a need once for a way to get away from the PKs there is certainly no longer.

How about a blessed 'focus' that can be marked for a single location only and used to recall. I think this is how it worked in U7. Cant recall for sure, its all going grey.

Tie the moongates and player cast gates into the cycles of the moon, while we are at it.

Travel should be over land or sea.

[Finch]

Bag of Sending... is a BOS... and no they are horrible now.

Absolutely right. What a waste of time. With LRC or by just spending a few tithing points I can recall to the bank/house and drop and run. Bit of a bigger pan, but really money saved in not having to buy powder.

[Limlight]

Same goes for recall.

If there was a need once for a way to get away from the PKs there is certainly no longer.

How about a blessed 'focus' that can be marked for a single location only and used to recall. I think this is how it worked in U7. Cant recall for sure, its all going grey.

Tie the moongates and player cast gates into the cycles of the moon, while we are at it.

Travel should be over land or sea.

Take that crap to Siege.

Frankly, I dont get why people whine about running back from Illsh.

All you gotta do is farm "said" creature and just drop the gold piles in a nearby location hidden with transparency. Once you have farmed up like 100k...recall out and then run back with a beetle.

[Draxous]

I never used Bags of Sending to begin with. I was fairly pissed when they were introduced, because it ruined my near-monopoly on the Harrower gold spray. I used to be the only person willing to run down to the bottom of dungeons over and over to get at it. Then they introduced the Bags of Sending and it was all hoovered up less than 10 seconds after the Harrower fell.

Funny... Bags of Sending were introduced before they introduced Champ Spawns/Harrower...

:coco:

[Haddy G]

I don't use them.

[Beefybone]

Same goes for recall.

If there was a need once for a way to get away from the PKs there is certainly no longer.

How about a blessed 'focus' that can be marked for a single location only and used to recall. I think this is how it worked in U7. Cant recall for sure, its all going grey.

Tie the moongates and player cast gates into the cycles of the moon, while we are at it.

Travel should be over land or sea.

I would actually really like this, but I know it's too extreme to ever happen.

[Amathist of PoC]

Well I just listened to the Town Hall meeting and BOS changes where brought up and what Jeremy said made sense and I now agree that BOS changes where needed and will hopefully better our economy.

[Cogniac]

Funny... Bags of Sending were introduced before they introduced Champ Spawns/Harrower...

:coco:Nice try, but no.

The Harrower was introduced in Publish 16 (http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_16), which was published in July, 2002. The scenario that introduced bags of sending (http://www.uoguide.com/List_of_BNN_Articles_%282002%29#Scenario_5:_When_A nts_Attack) didn't begin until September, 2002.

[Draxous]

Funny... Bags of Sending were introduced before they introduced Champ Spawns/Harrower...

:coco:Nice try, but no.

The Harrower was introduced in Publish 16 (http://www.uoguide.com/Publish_16), which was published in July, 2002. The scenario that introduced bags of sending (http://www.uoguide.com/List_of_BNN_Articles_%282002%29#Scenario_5:_When_A nts_Attack) didn't begin until September, 2002.

Actually, :scholar:

Bags of Sending or should I say, the Solen Ant Holes and the items/quests that came with them were introduced with UO Lord Blackthorns Revenge... which came before Publish 16, a good 6 months before Publish 16...

http://www.uolbr.com/press.html

AUSTIN, Texas, February 12, 2002 -- Origin Systems™, an Electronic Arts (NASDAQ: ERTS) development studio, today announced that it has begun shipping Ultima Online™ Lord Blackthorn's Revenge, the latest version in the award-winning Ultima Online™(UO) series


The end.

[Beefybone]

Well I just listened to the Town Hall meeting and BOS changes where brought up and what Jeremy said made sense and I now agree that BOS changes where needed and will hopefully better our economy.

What did she say? I had to go AFK before they got to that part.

[Cogniac]

Actually, :scholar:

Bags of Sending or should I say, the Solen Ant Holes and the items/quests that came with them were introduced with UO Lord Blackthorns Revenge... which came before Publish 16, a good 6 months before Publish 16...

http://www.uolbr.com/press.html

AUSTIN, Texas, February 12, 2002 -- Origin Systems™, an Electronic Arts (NASDAQ: ERTS) development studio, today announced that it has begun shipping Ultima Online™ Lord Blackthorn's Revenge, the latest version in the award-winning Ultima Online™(UO) series


The end.I find your reply rather confusing.

You claim that Bags of Sending and Solens came out with UO:LBR, and then to prove your point you link to and quote from a page on the LBR website that says absolutely nothing about Bags of Sending or Solens. All you managed to prove was that LBR came out before Publish 16.

You did not, however, prove that Bags of Sending and Solens came out before the Harrower. A feat which is, of course, impossible, because the Bags of Sending and Solens came out during the Solen Scenario, which occurred in September, whereas the Harrower was in Publish 16, which was published in July.

What really baffles me, though, is why you even began this little quest to attempt to make me look like an idiot to begin with.

[Draxous]

What really baffles me, though, is why you even began this little quest to attempt to make me look like an idiot to begin with.

I'm not trying to and I'm trying to be nice about this... its just a discussion. If I'm wrong, then I'd like to know... because I think I'm right. Don't you want to know if you're wrong?

Ok, so I dug some more... I am wrong.

http://www.uo.com/cgi-bin/newstools.pl?Article=6816

=P

[Amathist of PoC]

What did she say? I had to go AFK before they got to that part.

okay keep in mind this is not word for word as I do not think I could put it as well as Jeremy did but basically she explained how the BOS damaged the economy as the pour of gold into the community was higher then the out pour of gold from the community.

And that even the casual user of the BOS was pouring excess gold into the community and helping to wreck the economy and then the gold sellers just pushed it over the edge completely. They also said they did the change to effect the gold sellers and when they implemented the change 2 of the known ones went out of business within 24 hours.

She also explained how having the BOS pushed up the economy so much because of the gold available that the new player found it hard to get a start there measly 1000gp that they start with was nothing.

So the hope for the changes to the BOS is that the economy will drop prices will fall to reasonable and I agree with this I am tired of newbies expecting an 18 x 18 within there first week or elite armour....I am also tired of castles being sold for 100mil or more sure make them harder to get but make them harder to get because you have to earn the amount of gold it costs to place them not because someone else wants to make a quick buck.


any way not sure if I explained it well enough but to hear Jeremy say it made sense to me and changed my point of view.

[Bomb Bloke]

For what it's worth:

"Why was the Bag of Sending nerfed?"
The short answer is, to curb inflation. The longer answer involves some metaphors, so bear with me a moment.

UO's economy was designed on the "faucet/sink" model. Imagine a faucet that pours gold into the world. Now imagine various drains - "gold sinks" - that the gold flows away into. The goal of the system is for the level of gold in the world to remain approximately even, and that's done by adjusting the rate of the flow in and the size of the drains out.

In UO, the "faucets" are the various NPCs that give players gold - monsters you can loot, escorts or quests that give gold as a reward, etc. The drains are any NPC or system that takes gold away from players - the insurance system is a big one, as are player vendor fees. (Player-to-player trades are NOT sinks - moving the gold around within the world doesn't change the overall amount of money in it.)

The Bags of Sending were increasing the rate of flow of gold from monster loot - that faucet was pretty much cranked as wide as it would go. This has been overwhelming the drains and increasing the amount of money in the world, which lowers the actual value of gold - this is what economists mean by "inflation." Changing the Bags of Sending to make farming for gold less profitable will slow down that flow and hopefully slow down the rate of inflation - which will raise prices in the short run but lower them substantially in the long run, as the drains pull money out of the world and the actual value of gold goes up.

Now, MMO economics are far from an exact science, and the system will no doubt require further tweaking, but this is a step in the right direction.

[Beefybone]

Props, Amathist. Most people are too stubborn to change their mind about anything.

[Amathist of PoC]

Thank you Beefybone but I have always been fairly open minded the libra in me likes to balance things out, but yeah I guess I can be stuborn too LOL (red head - female) bad combo lol.

And thank you Bomb Bloke - I don't know if I ever read that FoF or if I did I forgot it.

[galefan2004]

It now takes more time to bother with bags of sending then to just haul the gold to the bank. I no longer use them. I no longer hunt things for the purpose of obtaining gold also.

I used to love hunting things for gold, but after the nerf to bags of sending it has become so tedious that I simply quit.

This change really seemed to have stopped the scripters and hasn't hurt the honest player at all. (THAT WAS SARCASM!)

I really wish EA would stop trying to stop the gold farmers by changing designs instead of doing mass bannings.

[galefan2004]

I don't use them at all, and don't miss them a bit. I still loot everything I kill and take all of the gold. The only difference is now I'm not having to buy a BoS and powder from someone's overpriced vendor in Luna for them, so overall I end up with more gold in the long run. Also note that 99% of my hunting is done in Ilsh.

Yes because the quest was so time consuming and so hard that you had to buy the items from Luna vendors.

Are you freaking kidding me with this post?

[galefan2004]

Do you think allowing us to Mark runes in Illishnar would help the BOS or should they just revert it back to what it was...perhaps making the quest a little harder?

They should allow recall in and out of every pixel on the map in all factions. Being able to recall is part of what makes UO great. If I want to take my time to get from place to place then I'll play WoW where I have no other option. Since UO has an option it should be utilized to its full extent.

Bags of Sending should be unnerfed and there is absolutely no reason to change the quest at all. It already consumed about 10-20 minutes to get a bag of sending and then 10-20 minutes to get the charges on it.

[galefan2004]

If you want to farm gold from login to logout with zero interruptions and zero travel time, there is absolutely no MMO on the market for you. None.

Funny because you can do it in WoW. You can log into WoW go to your spot and farm gold all freaking week if you chose to without ever having to worry about stopping until they do server maintenance on the next Tuesday. Most of the junk items worth selling stack. You can get from most farm spots to a sell point (for junk) in about 30 seconds.

There is a reason that all other games that were on UO dumped the weight idea and made gold able to be carried regardless of how much you actually had. Do you think before you post blanket statements like this?

[galefan2004]

Non blessed 10th ani items dropped in fel, yep that's useful to me. They are just a much more limited purpose item now.


I just insure the items as soon as I get them, and to be honest I have yet to be killed while hunting in Felucca on two servers as long as it wasn't at a champion spawn. I used to walk right by a house filled with members of one of the largest PvP guilds every time I went to hunt in Hyloth (there house was right outside) and I still never had anyone mess with me in Hyloth.

[galefan2004]

This is what I mean by crybaby. It's not just an ill-considered nerf, it's an INSULT. Lawl.


Because he tells the truth and you don't agree with him hes emo and a crybaby? GET OVER YOURSELF!


Seriously, have you played WoW or any other mainstream MMO?


Yes.


It's real easy to spend half an hour just going from Point A to Point B. Meanwhile in UO, anyone with a runebook and reflexes faster than an elderly sloth can recall-bank-recall in half a minute or less.


What you fail to realise in your falacy of logic is that you don't get from point A to point B without profit (especially if you are an herbalist/miner). You also don't realise that you can get almost anywhere in under 5 minutes from almost anywhere in end game content if you get the fastest mount. You also don't realise that once you get to point B there is nothing keeping you from staying there for as long as you want. In WoW, you don't have to run to the bank every 15 minutes so there is no real need for recall.


Tell you what, you can have your BoS back to normal, but only if we delete recall and make everyone who isn't a mage walk EVERYWHERE. Just like all those other games.

Funny because you still fail to realise that those other games don't require you to walk there more than once. You also don't realise that you can't really compare the recall system to the travel systems in other games because although you can do it instantly in UO you can jump on a flight path in WoW and go do other things then come back (which is just about the same as it being instant).

How about they remove the weight of gold and upgrade the system so that you don't need to bank gold at all and carry it on your person. Then redo the transfer system between players so that you can transfer numbers instead of checks. Then remove checks from the game entirely. What you fail to realise is that you can't dupe numbers but you sure the hell can dupe gold, so which game has a better system...hmm?

[Bomb Bloke]

Bags of Sending should be unnerfed and there is absolutely no reason to change the quest at all. It already consumed about 10-20 minutes to get a bag of sending and then 10-20 minutes to get the charges on it.
And after spending those 20-40 minutes, you had the ability to send +2mill before you needed to do the quests again. The quests were hardly what you'd call stingy in their rewards.

You can get from most farm spots to a sell point (for junk) in about 30 seconds.
Ditto for UO, though that still counts as an "interruption".

There is a reason that all other games that were on UO dumped the weight idea and made gold able to be carried regardless of how much you actually had.
Those games tend to provide far less gold to players, so there's no real need to limit the amount they can carry. In UO, gold is plentiful, so there needs to be a mechanism to stop us from picking up every last coin we find.

[galefan2004]

Well I just listened to the Town Hall meeting and BOS changes where brought up and what Jeremy said made sense and I now agree that BOS changes where needed and will hopefully better our economy.

Because a developer says it it must be true? Have the sites that sold gold gone anywhere? No. Did the script farmers suddenly stop farming gold? No. If a player posted something as stupid as 2 gold farmer sites went out of business as soon as they nerfed bags of sending you would tell them to name the sites. It might sound good, but the truth is that the majority of actual sites that sell gold do so by buying player gold and selling it for 2x what they paid for it. Most of the sites don't even have people playing the game other than those doing deliveries.

[galefan2004]

okay keep in mind this is not word for word as I do not think I could put it as well as Jeremy did but basically she explained how the BOS damaged the economy as the pour of gold into the community was higher then the out pour of gold from the community.


They tried to put an ARTIFICIAL cap on the flow of gold into the economy to fix this. They did that by nerfing the BoS. They must not have been able to notice that the flow of gold into the economy was a problem way before bags of sending. Back in the day I farmed 4 million gold (this is without item sales) in one day just by farming the eg room non-stop and GATING in and out to drop the gold. A much better solution would have been to impliment gold sinks like the vast majority of all other games have done.


And that even the casual user of the BOS was pouring excess gold into the community and helping to wreck the economy and then the gold sellers just pushed it over the edge completely. They also said they did the change to effect the gold sellers and when they implemented the change 2 of the known ones went out of business within 24 hours.


I thought it was 48 hours. I still call it BS because gold sellers mostly resell gold (at least the ones that are big in the industry) that they buy from players. The other issue with this statement is that the economy was already in trouble at that point. The developers did a lot more to ruin this economy than the gold sellers ever did by making it so incredibly easy for gold sellers to make a profit on this game. 120 power scrolls used to ONLY be available by spawning or going to eBay ffs.


She also explained how having the BOS pushed up the economy so much because of the gold available that the new player found it hard to get a start there measly 1000gp that they start with was nothing.


That was an unrelated problem, and should have been solved by allowing newer players to have a more fair advantage. By the same logic, veteran rewards raise the bar so much that newer players have issues competing, so nerf veteran rewards.


So the hope for the changes to the BOS is that the economy will drop prices will fall to reasonable and I agree with this I am tired of newbies expecting an 18 x 18 within there first week or elite armour....I am also tired of castles being sold for 100mil or more sure make them harder to get but make them harder to get because you have to earn the amount of gold it costs to place them not because someone else wants to make a quick buck.


Yes and we all see how well the nerf worked because we can all agree that it solved the economies problems over night. Am I rite?

Lets be honest. The developers tried (and failed) to solve a problem that they created themselves. The reason items are so overly inflated in UO is because of the fact that the developers think having rares that you can't easily obtain for yourself in a MMORPG is a good thing. They fail to see how the rares market and inflation go hand in hand.

[galefan2004]

And after spending those 20-40 minutes, you had the ability to send +2mill before you needed to do the quests again. The quests were hardly what you'd call stingy in their rewards.


Other games don't require you to send gold at all so they must all be overpowered as well.


Ditto for UO, though that still counts as an "interruption".


Not ditto for all spots in UO. You can not recall into a lot of spots in Ilshenar for example. Also, you can chose rather you want to sell or delete junk items in other games and in a lot of cases you can just delete the items without any real loss if you are farming certain items.


Those games tend to provide far less gold to players, so there's no real need to limit the amount they can carry. In UO, gold is plentiful, so there needs to be a mechanism to stop us from picking up every last coin we find.

If you think gold is more plentiful in UO than in WoW then you are misinformed. I know people in WoW that have 18 thousand gold just from playing the AH (that would be equivilent to about $1440 which would be equivilent to 1 billion 440 million in UO. I know casual players (myself included) that easily get large ammounts of gold just by doing professions and this process is much easier than farming UO gold.

[Bomb Bloke]

You're missing the point; The problem is there is too much gold in UO, and the BoS nerf was an attempt at fixing it. Assuming the fix were to be effective, you wouldn't NEED to farm as much as before, because suddenly what gold you do harvest is capable of purchasing more items. Player vendors either drop their prices or they won't sell anything.

Not that I believe the BoS nerf IS effective, mind you. Rather then reversing the change I'm in favour of introducing additional measures. Throttling the amount of gold champions drop would be a great start - I don't think gold sinks are as effective, because whatever perks they provide only serve to frustrate the newbies who can't afford them.

The AH (Auction House) is NOT a good example of how much gold flows into WoW. You're trading with OTHER PLAYERS there - No gold is introduced to the game in this way. The speed at which gold can be generated is an entirely different matter to the speed at which you can collect gold that already exists.

[Amathist of PoC]

Because a developer says it it must be true? Have the sites that sold gold gone anywhere? No. Did the script farmers suddenly stop farming gold? No. If a player posted something as stupid as 2 gold farmer sites went out of business as soon as they nerfed bags of sending you would tell them to name the sites. It might sound good, but the truth is that the majority of actual sites that sell gold do so by buying player gold and selling it for 2x what they paid for it. Most of the sites don't even have people playing the game other than those doing deliveries.

Yes totally I believe everything that is told me because I am that nieve......as for did the sites go any place I do not know I do not use them and would not use them. But I have seen changes to some items prices around me in game that supported what she said. I took the fact that they possibly put gold sellers out of business as a bonus.

As for what I would say to a player claiming the same....you do not know me so how would you know what I would post. Because I would not post anything close to what you assume.

[aarons6]

i still think that most monsters shouldnt drop gold in the first place.

just the magic items is all, and the junk.

this would be the most easiest way to fix the economy.
cut all gold from monsters to 1/10th.

then only the items would be worth anything, these you can take back to npcs and sell for gold if you want.
or if you find a really nice one then sell it to players, enhance it or keep it.

gold farming would be gone, and in a short time 100k would be worth a lot again.

[galefan2004]

Yes totally I believe everything that is told me because I am that nieve......as for did the sites go any place I do not know I do not use them and would not use them. But I have seen changes to some items prices around me in game that supported what she said. I took the fact that they possibly put gold sellers out of business as a bonus.


You see a drop in item prices because people leave this game in droves and those items fall with their houses and get put back into the economy. That means prices will drop. The two have nothing to do with each other at all.

As for what I would say to a player claiming the same....you do not know me so how would you know what I would post. Because I would not post anything close to what you assume.[/QUOTE]

I'm confused. What did I "assume" you would post?

[Beefybone]

If we're playing WoW and I need you in Feralas, but you're in Western Plaguelands, it's going to be a long sequence of flying, waiting for a boat, then flying some more before you finally catch up to me a good 15 minutes later. And no, you won't be making any profit along the way. Meanwhile I can be anywhere in UO in 2 minutes flat.

Hell, I can do a complete UO recall-bank-recall cycle in less time than you'll spend just standing on the dock waiting for the boat in WoW. Don't try to BS everyone here.

You have no god-given right to farm infinitely without pause. The BoS isn't getting unnerfed. You may as well quit. And I love how you object to being called a crybaby, but then make about 400 tear-stained posts in a row.