Blue Crystals & sick Gypsies : Should have been designed better ?

[popps]

Since it takes many blue crystals to fully heal these sick NPCs in order to receive a robe, some player, given the current way it has been designed, are "jumping in" other players' hard work giving blue crystals to the sick NPC and so getting chances and rights at them receiving the robe, not the actual player who initiated the process or gave the most blue crystals to the sick NPC.

That is, a player can end up sinking a whole lot of blue crystals into the sick NPC but some other player receive a robe for just dropping in a few.

Perhaps it could have been designed better like giving exclusive rights to the player who initiated the process and other players' blue crystals were refused untill the process was ended ? Of course, with a time out timer to avoid sick NPCs sitting waiting on the same one player forever....

On another note, this Halloween event has been designed with a whole lot of things to do but for too much a short span of time.

Too much to do in too little of time.

Perhaps the Event deadline should be postponed of a week or 2 to allow players to more fully enjoy all aspects of it ?

Not all players can play all day long, some only have an hour or 2 a day if at all....

just wondering........

[hen]

It's fine and dandy the way it is.

[Farsight]

I thought about a lengthy answer, but I'll just say this.

I played for about 2 hours on the new content and have done everything except Trick or Treats.

So not enough time is certainly a bad way of saying it.

[Teeshy]

Doesn't affect me since I'm not trying to get one, but basically it's supposed to be about luck and pretty much, you're lucky you get to have a chance to get one still

The original design was that only 12 luck robes would be available per shard.

[Chad Sexington]

In Trammel yes, on Siege, no.

[jack flash uk]

go armed with 50 blues, your all set, dont go with a few at a time and top up as you are asking for trouble

Alot of players including me did this to begin with, but much has been said about it and only the ill or non advised players continue to top up

so, like i said go with 50 and, like a guild mate you may get very lucky, he was prepared for 1 robe and got 2, with about 7 crystals used each time

[R Traveler]

Just in case they deside to make "fair" system for such type of quests. There is already similar system with peerless keys. First person who drop key get exclusive rights for next 5 minutes to place other keys.

[Harlequin]

Actually, all valid points raised by popps.

Individual counters for using blue crystals and an extension would be nice.

In my perfect utopian world, everyone would be nice and take turns to cure the gypsies without stealing.

That way, everyone wins without doing it at the expense of others.

Unfortunately, it is not a perfect world, yet...

Thus certain things (not all though) needs to be designed in ways that prevent such scenarios.

The quests were in overall very well designed. And if Popp's OP had said that it was designed badly, I would have opposed it.

But I do feel it would be even better if the crystal turn ins had individual counters.

[NewThunder]

I am pretty sure this is a multiplayer game, there are going to be many times the players are competing for resources; I like this design it makes it random and involves everyone. Don't worry your life will not end if you do not get every item in the game!

[Connor_Graham]

Originally Posted by NewThunder

I am pretty sure this is a multiplayer game, there are going to be many times the players are competing for resources;

Robes are items, not resources. Resources are consumable.

Just sayin'...

[popps]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

In my perfect utopian world, everyone would be nice and take turns to cure the gypsies without stealing.

That way, everyone wins without doing it at the expense of others.

The way I see it, this is a game, intended to entertain paying subscribers.
And, it revolves around a virtual world resulting from software code which can customize it to the programmers' will. Of course, saved programming and hardware limitations.

That is, to me, it means that often things can be designed and programmed as wanted to obtain the wanted results.

Now, in regards to blue crystals and the current event, I would imagine that several players might appreciate more having their hard work NOT be stolen rather than otherwise.

This, given that there are players out there who play the game for entertainment and relax.

So, I wonder, if it can be designed and programmed to avoid unnecessary stress and frustration in players why is it instead that we have the current design which makes it that the hard work and time of players can be taken away from them by a bypasser fellow player ?

Was it intended or a mere oversight ?

[popps]

Originally Posted by NewThunder

I am pretty sure this is a multiplayer game, there are going to be many times the players are competing for resources; I like this design it makes it random and involves everyone. Don't worry your life will not end if you do not get every item in the game!

One thing is competing for resources, like getting to a tree or ore vein and find it empty, an entire other thing is dumping 30-40 blue crystals which took time and dedication to find on a sick gypsie only to have someone else come by, drop a few and them get the robe..........

This is not competition, IMHO, this is unnecessary stress and frustration where one might instead look for entertainment.

At least, so i see it.

[NewThunder]

Originally Posted by popps

One thing is competing for resources, like getting to a tree or ore vein and find it empty, an entire other thing is dumping 30-40 blue crystals which took time and dedication to find on a sick gypsie only to have someone else come by, drop a few and them get the robe..........

This is not competition, IMHO, this is unnecessary stress and frustration where one might instead look for entertainment.

At least, so i see it.

Don't bother with the blue crystals, sell them to others and use the gold to buy the robes. If this quest causes you so much stress perhaps you should try a single player game, the Civ series can provide hours and hours of fun.

[Stupid Miner]

Teeshy's post has the link to the thread that answers this question in its entirety. This thread is useless.

...not being rude, just saying.

[Prince Caspian]

Originally Posted by NewThunder

I am pretty sure this is a multiplayer game

Really?

I thought all the other peeps on the screen were just very, very, very convincing AI Bots.

[Yen Sid]

One way to make it better, make it so the Gypsies are there for the next few months but make it so you can no longer get crystals. Everyone will be able to turn them in whenever they want and there will be far less people trying to "rob" you of your robe. I play a low population shard so it matters not to me how this was set up. I am having a good time regardless and its basically a free item. Stop complaing that you are being given things. Last time I checked, free things are good. It still here for 2 more weeks, plenty of time to hold out and get a robe. Peace.

[Prince Caspian]

Originally Posted by NewThunder

If this quest causes you so much stress perhaps you should try a single player game, the Civ series can provide hours and hours of fun.

I dunno. The civ games can raise your blood pressure too, especially on the harder levels when the AI cheats. Or try Colonization, where the other colonies inexplicably get the Star Lineup of Founding Fathers with two toothless rednecks in their Town Hall, whereas your Town Halls are stuffed to bursting and only the fat-kid-on-the-sidelines-picked-to-even-the-teams cretins send YOU their resume.

But I digress.

The funny thing about this is, if I get this robe, I'll probably put it on my mage who has abysmal luck and max mana regen, and who I never play anyway. If I get another I'll throw it in a chest and leave it there like so many Transformers in the attic at my parents house.

[legendsguy]

Originally Posted by popps

One thing is competing for resources, like getting to a tree or ore vein and find it empty, an entire other thing is dumping 30-40 blue crystals which took time and dedication to find on a sick gypsie only to have someone else come by, drop a few and them get the robe..........

This is not competition, IMHO, this is unnecessary stress and frustration where one might instead look for entertainment.

At least, so i see it.

qft. and newthunder, you own like 10 houses in luna, i'd rather not get a lesson on competing for resources from someone who hordes the prime luna spots.

[popps]

Originally Posted by NewThunder

Don't bother with the blue crystals, sell them to others and use the gold to buy the robes. If this quest causes you so much stress perhaps you should try a single player game, the Civ series can provide hours and hours of fun.

One thing I often have a hard time understanding is why, whenever an argument is raised, readers of a post assume that the poster raised the argument for a personal agenda.

Well, I have no clue about others but personally, I often discuss arguments not because I may have personal reasons but simply because I think that some changes could be better for the game, overall.

On the topic of blue crystals and sick gypsies, it does not stress me, personally, simply because I did not bother with it. Not had the time and am not sure whether I will given all things I have to deal with in my ordinary day....

That said, I was arguing that the current status of things may be stressing to some players and was arguing that, perhaps, things could have been designed differently to ease what I think might be an unnecessary stress to paying subscribers who, supposedly, pay a service for entertainment, not to get stressed......

At least, that is my opinion about it.

[RavenWinterHawk]

Popps you missed the "in world idea" of the sick gypsies.

The point in game was that an unknown amount of cure was needed... so everyone rallies to cure by collecting crystals.


Real life turned it into this.

Cures occur at 10 20 30 40 50 60 crystals
your best bet to get a robe is to collect 60 crystals
Now find sick gypsy and use stealth if you have it.
Dump them as fast as you can to get robe.

It is not unfair if you focus on the game premise. Sadly we boil the game away and always get to the bones of mechanics and ease to get the reward.

[northwoodschopper]

i'm thinking the devs should've just stuck with an abyssmally low % chance to get the robe per crystal, just to keep it a true lottery in the sense. there would be a lot less griping, that's for sure.

[slaveone]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

Individual counters for using blue crystals and an extension would be nice.
In my perfect utopian world, everyone would be nice and take turns to cure the gypsies without stealing.

Individual counter = UMMMM. NO this was a halloween event not a freebie robe event!

Extension on Halloween = UMMM. NO Halloween is over it should be done already!

Claiming people are stealing = UMMM. NO just because someone decides to unload their lot of blue crystals does in no way shape or form make that gypsy theirs for the taking. This is an MMO anyone is entitled to do anything in the game that they want obviously within reason (not breaking TOS rules etc..). If someone comes up and starts dropping on "your" (lol) gypsy thats your tough luck you should have invised or hid so it wasn't so obvious. I'm getting real tired of people who fail to understand this. If the robes were meant for everyone to have they would have been given out as gifts in your pack when you logged in on halloween. They weren't! If you don't like the system don't participate and sell your blue crystals for gold and buy yourself a darn robe. Quit complaining its real noob!

[slaveone]

Originally Posted by popps

I was arguing that the current status of things may be stressing to some players and was arguing that, perhaps, things could have been designed differently to ease what I think might be an unnecessary stress to paying subscribers who, supposedly, pay a service for entertainment, not to get stressed.

No one has a gun to their head forcing them to run countless crystal quests. Therefore any stress would be self induced and has absolutely nothing to do with any game mechanics. Just because we all pay for UO access does not mean we are entitled to everything in game we want i don't see what being a paying subscriber has to do with anything what so ever. I've been a paying UO subsriber for going on 11 years now. Last I checked i didn't have a Fire Cu Sidhe. Last you checked you didn't have a 140 luck conjurer's robe. I fail to see the differance.

[Aboo]

Originally Posted by NewThunder

Don't bother with the blue crystals, sell them to others and use the gold to buy the robes. If this quest causes you so much stress perhaps you should try a single player game, the Civ series can provide hours and hours of fun.

I don't know about the blue crystals but I tried using a red crystal on a char that did not obtain it and was told when I tried to use it that it belonged to someone else.

If we can sell/give/trade the blue crystals I would love to do that since all I seem to be getting are blue crystals and no where near enough to do me any good.

[Prince Caspian]

Originally Posted by Aboo

I don't know about the blue crystals but I tried using a red crystal on a char that did not obtain it and was told when I tried to use it that it belonged to someone else.

Complete the quest with that character (up to the point of dropping off the murky potion to the Hag) and then you can use any of the crystals.

[Gheed]

This thread is proof that there is no middle ground in this mmo. I have received 4 robes through doing the quest normally, another two for trading my red crystals for blue. 8 yellow crystals +4 from trading. So 6 luck robes and potentially 6 non luck-robes. I have not been hitting this event hard either. At best a couple hours/night. There are nearly two full weeks of the event left and I could easily triple or quadrouple what I have already done. If all you want from this event is the item then there are plenty of ways to gauruntee you will get one. If all you want to do is heal NPC's then who really cares of you dropped the last crystal or not.

There is absolutely no-way any player that invests a solid 4 hrs (on a production shard) over the span of this event could not get a robe. But it absolutely MUST be a 140 luck robe... cause 140 luck really means something. I am beggining to think Sak was right in her thoughts about changing the initial plan. Sounds like folks are going to complain no matter what.

[NewThunder]

Originally Posted by legendsguy

qft. and newthunder, you own like 10 houses in luna, i'd rather not get a lesson on competing for resources from someone who hordes the prime luna spots.

I actually own 5 Luna houses on legends (yes at one point I did Own 10), I do also have one on Chessy and one on catskills.

[[LGND]]

I disagree with Popps.

[RavenWinterHawk]

Originally Posted by Gheed

This thread is proof that there is no middle ground in this mmo. I have received 4 robes through doing the quest normally, another two for trading my red crystals for blue. 8 yellow crystals +4 from trading. So 6 luck robes and potentially 6 non luck-robes. I have not been hitting this event hard either. At best a couple hours/night. There are nearly two full weeks of the event left and I could easily triple or quadrouple what I have already done. If all you want from this event is the item then there are plenty of ways to gauruntee you will get one. If all you want to do is heal NPC's then who really cares of you dropped the last crystal or not.

There is absolutely no-way any player that invests a solid 4 hrs (on a production shard) over the span of this event could not get a robe. But it absolutely MUST be a 140 luck robe... cause 140 luck really means something. I am beggining to think Sak was right in her thoughts about changing the initial plan. Sounds like folks are going to complain no matter what.

People always complain and it can be boiled down to this.

They have something I want and I want it now. Make it easy.

[onthefifty]

well if it was a gamble they should have stated that in the beginning. i dont want to say griefing but if someone is sitting there stealthed and watches you put 49 crystals on the thing and puts the last one on.... if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

that being said. i dropped my 44 on the npc primetime on chessy and got a robe so, given what you now know precautions should be taken.


can't please all the people. - jiminy cricket.

[northwoodschopper]

this robe should've just been the robe of the eclipse with the scarlet hue and the conjurer name.

[Aboo]

Originally Posted by Prince Caspian

Complete the quest with that character (up to the point of dropping off the murky potion to the Hag) and then you can use any of the crystals.

Thank you. Can you also then trade blue potions?

[Aboo]

Originally Posted by RavenWinterHawk

People always complain and it can be boiled down to this.

They have something I want and I want it now. Make it easy.

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I think the original poster has a valid complaint.

I have a very limited amount of time to play anymore. I have managed to get 10 blue crystals. I seriously doubt I will be able to get the approximate 50 crystals people say I will need to finish that quest PROVIDED someone doesn't do to me what others have complained about people doing thereby requiring me to obtain even more crystals.

Why is it that whenever someone complains about something not being fair, even if it's a legitimate complaint, someone has to belittle them by saying they just want it easy and want it now? *shakes head*

[phantus]

The reward mechanism of this quest is horse crap. The devs(dev) knew it was horse crap when they put it in and did it anyway.

The quest and story were fine.

That is all...

[Gheed]

Originally Posted by Aboo

Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with you here. I think the original poster has a valid complaint.

I have a very limited amount of time to play anymore. I have managed to get 10 blue crystals. I seriously doubt I will be able to get the approximate 50 crystals people say I will need to finish that quest PROVIDED someone doesn't do to me what others have complained about people doing thereby requiring me to obtain even more crystals.

Why is it that whenever someone complains about something not being fair, even if it's a legitimate complaint, someone has to belittle them by saying they just want it easy and want it now? *shakes head*

It more like people who don't use their head. You dont have to heal the npc to get the robe. I have seen a couple folks at the hag shouting trades of 50+ blues + yellows (one offering reds too) for a luck robe of their own. And they didnt stand there long. Both were taken up on their offer by someone else before I got to them. Mainly cause I want lots of yellows now. The ability to summon a bad ass mob anytime/where you want seems pretty handy.

[Aboo]

Originally Posted by Gheed

It more like people who don't use their head. You dont have to heal the npc to get the robe. I have seen a couple folks at the hag shouting trades of 50+ blues + yellows (one offering reds too) for a luck robe of their own. And they didnt stand there long. Both were taken up on their offer by someone else before I got to them. Mainly cause I want lots of yellows now. The ability to summon a bad ass mob anytime/where you want seems pretty handy.

No matter how you try to spin it, if you actually wanted to participate in the quest YOURSELF and obtain the robe YOURSELF, the way it is set up makes it very difficult and leaves LOTS of room for unscrupulous people to misuse the system. That is just how it is.

[popps]

Originally Posted by Aboo

Why is it that whenever someone complains about something not being fair, even if it's a legitimate complaint, someone has to belittle them by saying they just want it easy and want it now? *shakes head*

I do not understand it either and yet, I have find that often dissenting voices are ridiculed and emarginated.

Too much often I see that criticizing is confused for whining and much too soon entire threads attempting at discussing the improvement of game aspects which, according to the original poster of the given thread, have room to be improved, are dismissed.

I think that real life has all challenges, harshness and competition one may ever want to face, and perhaps even some more. Personally, I see entertainment and leisure time as an entire different thing.

[popps]

Originally Posted by Aboo

No matter how you try to spin it, if you actually wanted to participate in the quest YOURSELF and obtain the robe YOURSELF, the way it is set up makes it very difficult and leaves LOTS of room for unscrupulous people to misuse the system. That is just how it is.

Thanks.
This was the point I was trying to bring up.

What is still unclear to me, is whether the Designers actually wanted it to work like this, or whether the current design in regards to blue crystals and sick gypsies and the stress and frustration if may bring to participating players has been an oversight.

Should it be an oversight, I wished then, that when planning and designing Events like this such aspects and consequences upon participating players could be more foreseen and addressed before, and not after they hit players.

I also disagreed with, for example, placing the shadowlords in a small room which got packed with Greater Dragons and players had trouble even targeting their foes.....

Or, just to mention another example, the choice of having that one monster in the Abyss give a unique robe AND a needed key for a champion spawn.
Farmers for the robe ended up blocking access to the key for many other players.

What I am trying to say, is that I personally think that one thing is NPCs artificial intelligence and difficulty of a task, an entire other is a task resulting annoying, frustrating and stressing for participating players.

Perhaps players could favour not having to run into unnecessary stress or frustration when playing the game because it was foreseen.

I favour difficulty, but I cannot avoid criticizing what I see as annoying, frustrating and stressing activities in a game which customers play for entertainment.

At least so I think.

[Alezi]

1)Enter Felucca
2)??
3)Get robe

[The Fallout]

It's not that big of a deal, considering they were only considering 12 robes a shard. I am slowly collecting blues and I play about an hour a day and have 50 blue, I also hunt for jack o lanterns and trick or treat during this time, when I get to one hundred I'll be able to try toget my robe WITHOUT grinding. If I fail and someone sneaks me twice... I'll still have about a week to get another hundred. People are making it a grind for themselves and then complaining...

[the 4th man]

I agree with popps, regardless of what others may think. Their opinions mean squat to me.

Popps is professing his opinion, not asking to be bashed and ridiculed, but saddly, (and I'm just as guilty) people come on here and insult. In this case he's correct.

One guy on here took shots at the words "stole" and "yours"......another tried saying you can get 60 blue ctrystals in 4 hours, (yeah right, prove it pal)

Either way popps, some of us agree with you and the ones who want to bash and call names need to grow up.

later

[The Fallout]

another tried saying you can get 60 blue ctrystals in 4 hours, (yeah right, prove it pal)

Are you referring to me? getting 50 (I said 50 not 60) is very easy in four hours.

First of all collect about 8-12 corporal essences, then play on off hours and use them in a row. Trade most (not all) of your reds for blues. It is very easy, just think a little.

EDIT: Wait, when did the Halloween event start? An hour a day from then.... didn't it start before Halloween making it more than four hours....?

[Obsidian]

I work a full time job and play UO about 2 hours per night when my kids are in bed. I consider myself an average UO player based on my items and with a bank box usually sitting at less than 1M gold. So far I've been able to obtain 3 garbs. In my opinion, this quest is quite reasonable in its current design. It takes a little bit of effort to get into a groove and find the best tactics, but it is very doable even for the average player. As for having my healing attempts stolen, I've been smart about it. I go at odd times, thoroughly reveal the area, and I scout out the best gypsy location (Tram or Fel) first. It has worked very well for me with minimal extra effort.

One thing I like about the current quest is that you don't need an ultra elite character to complete the quest. For instance, with a starter necro-mage (100 necro, 100 SS and 80 magery) you can easily do the quest.

-OBSIDIAN-

[Gheed]

Originally Posted by the 4th man

another tried saying you can get 60 blue ctrystals in 4 hours, (yeah right, prove it pal)
later

I get 6+ crystals/per essence (10 min) easy. If half were blue thats 18/hour. More than enough in three hours. An hour to farm the corporeal = 4 hours. Not to metion the tons of folks I have traded reds for blues because they really want the shadow wyrm costume. But those folks realize UO isn't a single player mmo and maybe working with others to achieve goals is faster than doing it YOURSELF.

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by popps

Was it intended or a mere oversight ?

It is intended. See Sak's post in another thread that says the original intention was to give only 12 robes per shard.

[Harlequin]

Originally Posted by slaveone

Individual counter = UMMMM. NO this was a halloween event not a freebie robe event!

Extension on Halloween = UMMM. NO Halloween is over it should be done already!

Claiming people are stealing = UMMM. NO just because someone decides to unload their lot of blue crystals does in no way shape or form make that gypsy theirs for the taking. This is an MMO anyone is entitled to do anything in the game that they want obviously within reason (not breaking TOS rules etc..). If someone comes up and starts dropping on "your" (lol) gypsy thats your tough luck you should have invised or hid so it wasn't so obvious. I'm getting real tired of people who fail to understand this. If the robes were meant for everyone to have they would have been given out as gifts in your pack when you logged in on halloween. They weren't! If you don't like the system don't participate and sell your blue crystals for gold and buy yourself a darn robe. Quit complaining its real noob!

Perhaps stealing is too harsh a word.

This may be hard to believe, but I made the indivudual counter suggestion not because I can't get a robe, but because I don't want to get my robe at other player's expense...this is not based on any selfless desire either. It is purely selfish. I want UO to continue to be great for many years to come so that I can continue playing.



My main is a stealth mage. I tag team with my wife. Both of us would dump the crystals simultaneouesly on the same gypsy to cure him/her. This reduces our exposure to only half the time. Both times we did this, we got our robes using less than 50 crystals...

Also, if we find someone already there curing the gypsy, we would go look for another.

The thing is, we don't want to ruin someone else's enjoyment in order to get a robe. There is no reason that this cannot be a win win situation for all.



Note: however, if instead of needing to use 50 crystals (which could be very well be speculation on our part), the design was you had a 1 in 50 chance of curing the gypsies, then I have no problems with it.

[G.v.P]

12 options, 6 in tram, 6 in fel. Pretty easy.

[Teeshy]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

It is intended. See Sak's post in another thread that says the original intention was to give only 12 robes per shard.

^ this - I linked in my earlier post in this thread

[Ivorythorn]

I really hate this quest now. I thought that maybe I have enough blue crystals, so I tried to find a gypsy. I find Carl, and as far as I can tell I am the only one there. He is still 'human' so I wait. Eventually he turns into a Orc, "Cool I think...' I try to drop a blue crystal on him, and I get the, ...not interested in this... I thought WTF? I earned these crystals, I did the stupid quest! Along come a few people and sure enough less than one minute later, Carl turns back into human. This quest bites the big one. THE BIG ONE!

[The Fallout]

Originally Posted by Ivorythorn

I really hate this quest now. I thought that maybe I have enough blue crystals, so I tried to find a gypsy. I find Carl, and as far as I can tell I am the only one there. He is still 'human' so I wait. Eventually he turns into a Orc, "Cool I think...' I try to drop a blue crystal on him, and I get the, ...not interested in this... I thought WTF? I earned these crystals, I did the stupid quest! Along come a few people and sure enough less than one minute later, Carl turns back into human. This quest bites the big one. THE BIG ONE!

Double click the crystal then target him.... I think that's how it works.

[Ivorythorn]

Originally Posted by The Fallout

Double click the crystal then target him.... I think that's how it works.

UGH! If that's the case then, well, WTF??? Why can't they be consistent???
Drop the red crystals on Tomas to get the costumes, but on the sick gypsies you double click, then target???

WHY CHANGE IT???

[ACB1961]

Originally Posted by Ivorythorn

UGH! If that's the case then, well, WTF??? Why can't they be consistent???
Drop the red crystals on Tomas to get the costumes, but on the sick gypsies you double click, then target???

WHY CHANGE IT???

You'll get him. Just save your crystals and wait. He changes to an orc every 2 hours...

[ejpeters]

I haven't had any problems with this quest at all. I usually stealth in to make sure no one is watching me and then I start clicking away.
I haven't had to use 50 blue containers yet. It has been around 32 to 46 but I always go with over 50 just in case.

[Demonous]

i find it humorous when someone gives in like 45 crystals then some other guy gives in 5 and gets the robe, im glad they setup the system that way, i've gotten 8 robes already with the least amount of crystals needed being 25 so i'm not complaining... go to felucca to do it if you keep getting beat in tram

[Tandek]

Originally Posted by Teeshy

Doesn't affect me since I'm not trying to get one, but basically it's supposed to be about luck and pretty much, you're lucky you get to have a chance to get one still

The problem is that the "luck" aspect is being skewed by griefers. Luck would mean every crystal has (for example) a 1 in 100 chance of curing a gypsy. "Lucky" players will cure with 1-10 crystals, unlucky players won't cure with 200. Instead, we ended up with a competition between players, where players "in the know" of the mechanics can grief those who don't. If you are the only one curing the gypsy, there is no "luck" at all. If there are 10 people all curing at the same time, your chances greatly diminish and are dependent on how quickly you can double click. That would be fine, if it was the intention. According to the Sakkarah's own post, indeed it was supposed to be about luck. Obviously, it's not.

It's simply bad design and/or bad communication by Mythic. Hopefully they learn from this. I've learned not to even bother with these "special events" until I hear exactly how the mechanics behind them work. It will certainly ruin some of the fun, but I don't want to be bit by this kind of thing in the future.

[Miriandel]

Anything encouraging griefing == bad.

It's that obvious that it can't be seen, as it seems...

[Tandek]

Originally Posted by Demonous

i find it humorous when someone gives in like 45 crystals then some other guy gives in 5 and gets the robe, im glad they setup the system that way, i've gotten 8 robes already with the least amount of crystals needed being 25 so i'm not complaining... go to felucca to do it if you keep getting beat in tram

I don't find it humorous in the slightest. This shows exactly the issue with this system. One player had no chance with 45 crystals. The 2nd used what was likely the misinformation of the first to benefit. It's not funny. It's bad design. This specificly was designed to take enjoyment of the event away from the first player to give to the second. Outright terrible design.

Oh, and go to the PvP lands if the PvP in the PvM lands is too hard? Wow.

[Tina Small]

Originally Posted by Harlequin

This may be hard to believe, but I made the indivudual counter suggestion not because I can't get a robe, but because I don't want to get my robe at other player's expense...this is not based on any selfless desire either. It is purely selfish. I want UO to continue to be great for many years to come so that I can continue playing.

This is one of the reasons I haven't bothered with the quest and why I doubt I will buy one of the robes from a vendor. I have no intention of supporting this kind of game design or people who blatantly take advantage of it. As someone else pointed out last night, seeing things added to the game that further stoke player greed and cause ever more insidious conflict between players is making it a lot easier to stop wasting time and money playing UO.

[Shelleybean]

This is not a complaint about me obtaining robes. I actually have 2 and didn't expect to obtain any. However, I dislike this quest on many levels. The time spend gathering the blue crystals to complete it is not trivial. The fact that another player can come along and completely negate that time spent is poor design. Also, I would feel terrible to obtain a robe at another player's expense. These are people I play with, not my enemies. It's also a perfect magnet for people who enjoy causing some type of harm to another player. Don't we already have about a million other ways for players to shaft one another? I hope this is not a step toward the "Wild West" direction UO supposedly is taking.

[Connor_Graham]

Originally Posted by Shelleybean

I hope this is not a step toward the "Wild West" direction UO supposedly is taking.

It had better not be. If game mechanics are made such that Fel actions are added into Tram activities, then UO will be short lived. This quest is nothing short of adding legalized stealing into Tram, and I can't believe a certain Dev thinks we're stupid enough to believe it's a "luck" factor. That's BS, it's stealing.

[northwoodschopper]

i bet from all this negative feedback, the devs aren't going to try anymore. no biggie, there's still tons of things to play for outside of these events, right?

[Xalan Dementia]

i may have missed something, but how does these "robe thieves" know how many crystals youve dropped? how do they know when to drop the last one? Its a conspiracy I tells ya! yes I too hated the way this worked at first, but then realized who cares about an extra 140 luck? especially since luck is still broken on many loot tables. so I grabbed a yellow crystal and got me a normal robe off harby, saved hours of blue crystal farming and headache. One thing that I dont understand is, why people want them to fix/change something thats going to be turned off soon anyways. why have them waste thier time?

[Mephistos]

Originally Posted by northwoodschopper

i bet from all this negative feedback, the devs aren't going to try anymore. no biggie, there's still tons of things to play for outside of these events, right?

Or better yet, they can take all this criticism and learn from it and apply it to the next event? Wouldn't that make more sense than just throwing up their arms and saying "I'm just not going to try anymore"? I'm pretty sure giving up isn't in their job descriptions.

[northwoodschopper]

Originally Posted by Mephistos

Or better yet, they can take all this criticism and learn from it and apply it to the next event? Wouldn't that make more sense than just throwing up their arms and saying "I'm just not going to try anymore"? I'm pretty sure giving up isn't in their job descriptions.

more like, they'll just put some npc that will outright give you the event item for very little effort so everyone can receive one with no competition, since competition is frowned upon it seems.

[Gheed]

Originally Posted by northwoodschopper

i bet from all this negative feedback, the devs aren't going to try anymore. no biggie, there's still tons of things to play for outside of these events, right?

I bet Sak makes it worse. (I think)She values the individual only for what they contribute to the community. I would not be suprised if future events rely more heavily on the concept of teamwork to overcome adversity. And the best sort of adversity is from other players. Much more challenging than finding the flaw in the latest AI and exploiting it.

[phantus]

Originally Posted by northwoodschopper

more like, they'll just put some npc that will outright give you the event item for very little effort so everyone can receive one with no competition, since competition is frowned upon it seems.

Or how about they create a system that doesn't create an extreme of one side or another? It's not this way or the high way which some people seem to think it is. This system sucks and has pissed off many players. I also have 2 robes so it's not because I want something handed to me either.

I don't for one second think that anyone with the intelligence needed to create and code this system did not intend for the conflict it created. This was either a test of the player base to this kind of situation or a severe lack in judgement on the part of those involved. I'm in agreement with those who see this type of system leading us down a road that will cause players to begin abstaining from future events like it and ultimately find a game where their time is spent in a manner that is rewarding to them.

[Tina Small]

Originally Posted by northwoodschopper

more like, they'll just put some npc that will outright give you the event item for very little effort so everyone can receive one with no competition, since competition is frowned upon it seems.

My disgust with this event and several that have preceded it is how they encourage people to be nasty/mean/devious. Competition is fine; however, if the developers of UO continue to go in the direction of encouraging such attitudes and actions outside of Fel, then I'm finished with it.

I understand UO is just a game and sometimes people enjoy using it as an outlet to behave in ways they wouldn't otherwise behave. However, I rarely feel the need to use UO as an outlet for being a rotten SOB to someone else, especially an anonymous or semi-anonymous "someone else." If future events or activities make me feel as if UO has become nothing more than a means to pay to be a cyber-bully in a fantasy setting, I'm done with it. That isn't the kind of person I want to be and I damn well won't pay someone to inch me or anyone else further down that path.

[Tandek]

Originally Posted by Gheed

I bet Sak makes it worse. (I think)She values the individual only for what they contribute to the community. I would not be suprised if future events rely more heavily on the concept of teamwork to overcome adversity. And the best sort of adversity is from other players. Much more challenging than finding the flaw in the latest AI and exploiting it.

Hey, I'm all for that. Community events are very cool, if done well and communicated as such. Especially if the event has a feature that includes PvP of any kind. At that point, people can decide if the event is for them or not, and nobody should be complaining.

One of my ideas (and others likely thought of this) was that to cure a gypsy, you first turned in 50 or so crystals to the Hag for a "cure potion", and then you needed 10-20 other players all using the cure potions in conjuction to cure the gypsy. Then everyone involved gets the reward. That would require folks to "hunt down" others with crystals and you would see folks openning Gates to the gypsies and shouting out for help curing a certain gypsy.

For PvP, in Fel make the escenses only available off other player's bodies if that player is in killed in a dungeon. The dungeons will likely become a bloodbath, if anyone actually cares about PvP.

Instead we have folks hidden next to the gypsy, waiting for some hapless player to apply 10-20 crystals before starting themselves, and turning into a "fun" game of "who can click the fastest?".

The issue is that this was not communicated as a "community event" or competition. It was instead somebody's flawed concept of "luck".

[Gheed]

I keep seeing "fel behavior" references to this event. Tram was created because people would kill and loot other players dry before they got two steps outside of a guard zone.

In Trammel:
1. You can not attack other players
2. You can not Steal from other players.

That's about it. Trammel was never created with the intent that everyone in should sit content to graze off the fruits of the land unmolested. If this were the situation everyone would log into their own instance of Sosaria, placing castles wherever they wished and sitting in the middle of things like a ToT spawn w/o any worries that anyone would steal "their" spawn.

There is no light w/o darkness. Just as 5 people may help you defeat the bad guy in a tram spawn, One other player may well pop in a get looting rights w/o any effort and "steal" your item. To expect Trammel to be free of any sort of "negative" player interaction is delusional.

[northwoodschopper]

better yet, maybe the devs should stick with 'shard of the dead' special server-like events rather than introduce live content on the shards. this way, everyone has equal footing in all events, and it's all good fun as it has no effect on the real characters if theres exploits and such.

really, is this any different than a player coming along randomly to 'steal' your kill or beating you to a vendor to buy that item you've been saving for?

[Ivorythorn]

I am really disappointed in this aspect of the quest. Up to the point of turning in the crystals, everything is fine. Last night I stayed within sight of Carl for most of the full two hours, because I couldn't find any other gypsies.

So I kill orcs, more orcs, and finally Carl changes back to an orc. At this point I feel it would have been kind to be able to kill him and put him out of his misery, but no, of course you can't harm Carl. Now if I were him when I get get changed back to human, I would run for home, instead of staying in the Orc mines. But I digress.... So he changes back, and I DOUBLE CLICK on the blue crystals, and it works. No one else is around, as far as I can tell, and I proceed to use all of my crystals, all 45 of them. One person shows up, but wow, they either don't see Carl, already have all the robes they want, or they are being kind, and are letting me finish. Anyway, I use up all my crystals, and no robe. I hang around a for a while to see if he gets healed by a stealther, but no he doesn't. I guess I should have waited until I had over 70, but there are other things I wanted to do, and wanted to finish the quest, get ONE robe, and move on. Now I have to start all over. I've got 9 more blues, and some reds, enough for a costume, or more if I use other characters, I have on a second account.

Personally, I think they should have limited the robes to one per account, or maybe one per character. That may have been the way to go. The whole random number of crystals is also bogus, it should have been one set amount. I don't care if that number was 100 or 150, as long as I get the freaking robe!

Well, I do have 6 harbinger crystals... and will probably get more. The RNG is funky as funky can be...

[Mephistos]

Originally Posted by northwoodschopper

more like, they'll just put some npc that will outright give you the event item for very little effort so everyone can receive one with no competition, since competition is frowned upon it seems.

That is one extreme way they could take all events, sure, but where is the application of all the constructive criticism? How about next time, you turn in 50 blue crystals, you get the non-luck version of the robe. Turn in 150 more blue crystals, plus the non-luck version, and get the luck version of the robe. Turn in an additional 500 blue crystals, plus the luck version, and get something else, etc. etc. That way, you get increasing difficulty of the reward, so people can have their "rare" version, but you get rewarded according to how much time you put in, and not shafted at the last minute by some hidden jerk standing by the npcs that need to be healed?

[Spoz]

This is rediculous - just run to Felucca in one of the dungeons to hand over the crystals. Do it on a stealther if you're really cowardly.

I've been training tracking so I camped a Gypsy at Ice dungeon to see who came. Noone. Infact it went unchanged. I checked the one in Orc fort for a couple of hours - again noone came at all, even stealthed.

I've also used them to deliever my own crystals - 4 luck robes I've got from Fel, never having a problem at all and they've always been in monster form. Of course I had to use about 50 each time since noone else had put any on them, but still at least it was a sure thing.

Finally if you really are scared of losing crystals you could insure them before you go to Felucca - at 50 x 600 insurance thats only 30,000 for a robe worth a lot more.

If you play only in Trammel where there are 20 times as many players... so expect spawns/rares to be 20 times as camped. Don't complain when it also backfires.

[Ivorythorn]

Originally Posted by Mephistos

That is one extreme way they could take all events, sure, but where is the application of all the constructive criticism? How about next time, you turn in 50 blue crystals, you get the non-luck version of the robe. Turn in 150 more blue crystals, plus the non-luck version, and get the luck version of the robe. Turn in an additional 500 blue crystals, plus the luck version, and get something else, etc. etc. That way, you get increasing difficulty of the reward, so people can have their "rare" version, but you get rewarded according to how much time you put in, and not shafted at the last minute by some hidden jerk standing by the npcs that need to be healed?

This would work for me. I like it... the more work you do, the greater the reward.

[Aboo]

Originally Posted by Spoz

. . . If you play only in Trammel where there are 20 times as many players... so expect spawns/rares to be 20 times as camped. Don't complain when it also backfires.

I believe anyone has every right to complain when a quest is poorly implemented and gives griefers PLENTY of room to do just that - GRIEF.

[The Fallout]

Originally Posted by Aboo

I believe anyone has every right to complain when a quest is poorly implemented and gives griefers PLENTY of room to do just that - GRIEF.

Isn't griefing when you are bothering someone to ruin their experience? This is just people trying to get robes as quick as possible. Hardly griefing. I have yet to get a robe btw.

[Spoz]

Originally Posted by Aboo

I believe anyone has every right to complain when a quest is poorly implemented and gives griefers PLENTY of room to do just that - GRIEF.

I never see any messages when someone places a blue gem on a gypsy, so what chance do people have to grief? They just place as much as they can on the guy at the same time as someone else. Its not personal, its just down to luck which of you gets it and everyone has equal chance. That is if you decide to do it at populated places during peak times.

[LordDrago]

This is probably going to kill me, but popps might have a valid complaint...

ARRGGHHH...i think its my heart

But seriously, before I tried to turn in any blue crystals, I read about the issue with someone being able to turn in a single crystal and "steal" you robe, and I was a bit worried about it. Then I tried to turn in my crystals......and could not find a single one of the gypsies that was not already healed...over a couple of days (guess you would need to be on at server up to do this.

Well, I finally stayed up all night (yes, I am an idiot), went down to the Solen Hive, and turned in my crystals and got my robe. At the same time, the devs altered the gypsies refresh (now I really feel like an idiot for staying up all night).

Since then, I have turned in blue crystals whenever I hit about 70 in my pack, so i have hit all times of the day, and guess what? I have never had an issue with someone else turning in and trying to get "my" robe.

Now, this may be because of my superior game play - I take a stealth character to do it, so maybe noone knows thagt i am turning in when I do - although i hate walking (too slow) - so I ride right up to the gypsy and then hide before I am targeted, so if anyone was watching, they would know that I was there, si I actually believe that I am alone when I have done my turn ins.

Noe this is on Chessie, and perhaps on a more populated shard there might be issues, or maybe we on Chessie are just more of a community than some other shards . So come to Chessie and play

How many people have actually had someone intentionally take their robe? Is this actually a problem? I mean, is someone actually wasting their time waiting by the gypsies to get robes that way?

[Demonous]

Originally Posted by Tandek

I don't find it humorous in the slightest. This shows exactly the issue with this system. One player had no chance with 45 crystals. The 2nd used what was likely the misinformation of the first to benefit. It's not funny. It's bad design. This specificly was designed to take enjoyment of the event away from the first player to give to the second. Outright terrible design.

Oh, and go to the PvP lands if the PvP in the PvM lands is too hard? Wow.

haha i can tell you never played when there was no Tram, sadly i did not either but i have heard many stories of those glory days... there was a time when griefing was rampant in UO which i guess people didn't like for some reason and so tram was created to accommodate carebear type players who don't want other players to bother them in any way, most original griefers have quit uo many years ago and a lot of them now play the new mmo Darkfall which is one thing i love about it, i enjoy a good griefing here and there but i'm not as bad as i used to be, years ago i would pretend i couldn't rez when someone died in a dungeon in tram and then i would loot their bones

[Xalan Dementia]

there are no robe thieves in tram, waiting in stealth for you to use your blue crystals. the main complaint is that you dont know exactly how many blues ya need. yea it woulda been nice to have it count for you like Tomas does for costumes, but its almost done so dont hope for a change. Just get your 70 blues and goto a less traveled gypsy and heal for your lame luck robe.
required for normal conj garb - a yellow crystal and an hour of fighting
required for 140 luck conj garb - at least 4-5 hours of crystal farming and a fel unhealed gypsy.
take your pick, get a garb, and be thankful theres any new items for the holiday.

[Connor_Graham]

Originally Posted by Xalan Dementia

there are no robe thieves in tram, waiting in stealth for you to use your blue crystals.

Are you really that naive? It's been proven many times over that, yes, there are.

[Demonous]

Originally Posted by Connor_Graham

Are you really that naive? It's been proven many times over that, yes, there are.

not on my shard

[phantus]

Originally Posted by Demonous

not on my shard

Originally Posted by Demonous

i find it humorous when someone gives in like 45 crystals then some other guy gives in 5 and gets the robe, im glad they setup the system that way, i've gotten 8 robes already with the least amount of crystals needed being 25 so i'm not complaining

Other than yourself right?

[Mustarik]

Fundamentally, there should be encouragement to cooperate, particularly in a quest like this where the goal is to cure someone. It's great that some of you feel the need to compete, but frankly, there's already enough competition in the game. I'm tired of competing ALL THE TIME for the most trivial of things. The OP is right, a little more thought needed to go into this one to avoid the situation.

[Xalan Dementia]

you cant sit in stealth and count how many crystals another player is using, therefore there are no robe thieves. to steal a robe from someone in tram youd have to be able to see how many crystals the person is using and know exactly when to drop yours to "steal" thier robe. someone else sitting near the npc you want to heal? try another. dont have at least 50 blues? dont bother using any. its simple really. think a stealther is there watching you? then pretend to drop all your crystals and say something like "ah man, 50 crystals and no robe!" this should make the non existant stealther drop his crystals thinkin its a easy robe. the thought of people knowingly stealing your robe chance is as crazy as the idea that sasquatch and Nessy play backgammon in the bermuda triangle.
Paranoia will Destroy ya

[Gheed]

Originally Posted by Demonous

haha i can tell you never played when there was no Tram, sadly i did not either but i have heard many stories of those glory days... there was a time when griefing was rampant in UO which i guess people didn't like for some reason and so tram was created to accommodate carebear type players who don't want other players to bother them in any way, most original griefers have quit uo many years ago and a lot of them now play the new mmo Darkfall which is one thing i love about it, i enjoy a good griefing here and there but i'm not as bad as i used to be, years ago i would pretend i couldn't rez when someone died in a dungeon in tram and then i would loot their bones

I remember the fel only days. A few of my fondest in game memories come from those times. The only prized possesion I had was a silver vanq (i forget the accuracy mod) double axe. I got it T-hunting and it actually drew a small crowd of awe stricken fans when I was wielding it at Brit bank. As soon as I pulled it out of the chest I thought eventually I would lose it to a gank. But I actually lost it almost a year later to a dc while fighting on an island w/no healer. My corpse decayed before I could get back.

But when I got the axe, I learned how to PvP well enough to at least escape with it. In many cases to kill those who tried to take it from me. I wasn't going to lose it to another player.

The main difference between those days and today was that everything you tried to do eventually involved some sort of knowledge about PvP. If you did not know how to at least fight off another player long enough to escape, you were basically a bottom feeder. Running usually meant dying. But slapping someone w/a dp'd katana could buy you enough time to get out of there in most situations.

So that is where the game improved (to me). I was happy to see tram just to get a house. But going out (w/o trying to sneak out of town) and gathering resources or farming gold w/o constantly looking over my shoulder was a very welcome bonus. I knew it would not be the end of bad experiences w/players. But the rules were more than sufficient to allow me and many others to experience and flourish in alot of the other systems this game had to offer.

One of the negative offshoots from the split was the overwhelming sense of entitlement some players now feel when everything isn't handed to them. And yes you may have to jump through hoops to get to that "prize" but if there is no intervention either through RNG or other players then it IS handed to you.

Of all the fussing I have read here I have seen no mention of the jack-o-lantern reward. I recall to all the pumpkin fields between every few sparkle runs hoping a Sak/Draconi lantern will have poped. One night another player was always at the same 3 Brit fields keeping them cleared of pumkins (I assume) camping for the rare drop.

Over three hours of robe quest activities I would occasionally run through to see of any lanterns were there. The same player was always there patiently camping. On my last run a rare lantern was spawned in the field farthest away from him/her. I took it. Am I a griefer now? Was that player entitled to every rare pumpkin in the patch because he/she spent three hours of their time camping it? Did the devs screw it up because they didnt make the lantern spawn their pack? Would it make a difference if the rare pumpkins had 140 luck? Or have we all become so trammelized that we think our pressence there should be a filter to everything bad that could happen to us? Maybe it is time to thin the herd a bit in this game.

Sak thank you for making me think about this.

[Tandek]

Originally Posted by Demonous

haha i can tell you never played when there was no Tram

Don't let the low post count fool you. My account is 141 months old, and I still believe it is off by a couple of months (I clearly remember playing over Thanksgiving 1997 and well before that.) I go though massive breaks of posting 5-10 messages on stratics, then not checking back for a year.

Originally Posted by Demonous

, sadly i did not either but i have heard many stories of those glory days... there was a time when griefing was rampant in UO which i guess people didn't like for some reason...

People hiding and jumping into your house to steal everything when you open the door. Stealing at the bank, having the guards kill you and having a buddy freely and "legally" lank what you stole off your corpse and handing it back to you after rezing. Mass ganking of miners and new players. Corpse jumping. The list practically goes on forever. 90% of the game revolved around Hiding, Paralyze, EB and running.

Without Tram, this game certainly, no doubt, 100% definitely would be dead and gone by now. The overwhelming majority of people don't enjoy this kind of behavior (as can be seen by the lack of such nonsense in every major MMO since and the mass exodus from Fel), which brings us back to this issue. People simply don't like the idea that others benefiting from thier work while they gain nothing, or worse, are penalized for not knowing some bizzare and unannounced mechanics to the game. Slap 50 crystals on the gypsy that needs 60, get nothing and time wasted. Player 2 who knows to hide and wait for 20 seconds before quickly adding crystals gets in the last one and gets rewarded for your work.

As a programmer, I know damn well that allowing someone to do something means it will almost certainly be done by the users. There have been multiple times that a co-worker would tell me, "Oh, that will never happen", just to see someone enter "Idontknow" into a text box requiring thier Social Security Number, or changing a person's last name to "*Smith" just so the name filters to the top of an alphabetical listing (Ya, checks cut and W2s for "John *Smith" doesn't make anyone happy, but that user doesn't care as long as they can easily get to that person's record). Just giving people the option for this kind of behavior is bad design, especially with so many better options (personal counter and random chance per crystal come to mind) that have already been proven to work in the past.

Perhaps this was a one-of. Perhaps a test to try something different? I'm cool with that, as long as the devs learn from this clear mistake and don't make it again. Or at least they should do a better job of communicating the criteria to everyone so that those "in the know" don't even have the chance to grief those "not in the know".

[Stigmatas]

Originally Posted by phantus

The reward mechanism of this quest is horse crap. The devs(dev) knew it was horse crap when they put it in and did it anyway.

The quest and story were fine.

That is all...

This!