Adam on UOForums writes to inform us of the new policy on announcing website URLs in-game.
Even though I disagree with it, I have removed all item sales from the UOGuide website. UOGuide is now in full compliance with this new policy and can once again be mentioned in-game. Thanks to all who use and help advertise UOGuide.

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Update

Jeremy has replied, UOGuide still doesn't comply.
I'm sorry, but I don't know of a web hosting company that accepts UO gold and items. This is absurd.

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Update 2

There has been another revision of the policy.
So UOGuide is free and clear..............for today at least.

The policy makes good sense, except for stratics "white list" exception. Not trying to dog stratics here, but if no one else can apply for white list status, then stratics should not be allowed to have it either, in the interest of fairness.

Thats why I want EA to create an official UO forums. That way the rules apply to whatever EAs standards are and we have official mods who are/should be non-biased.

/signed

It's not actually a new policy. That line in the ROC has been there for a dog's age.

JC I will advertise your site every chance I get in game. This whole thing really makes me mad.

Right and the crappy gm service we are provided with when one gm just chooses to abide by the rules when he/she feel like it... makes total sense to me, NOT!

Um, I wouldn't go around shouting uoguide.com just yet guys. I doubt most of the GMs keep up with JC's threads here in Uhall or check uoguide.com daily.

For all they know it still advertises. Better to wait a few weeks, if not months.

Or even better yet... how about Mythic re-opens the application process and lets folks with fan sites apply for "official fan site" status. If they abuse it by trying to sneak in item sales after getting Official status, then Mythic can ban them from the list forever and ever, amen.

The Stratics exclusion dates from the time when Stratics was the "official forum" and GMs would send players there for certain kinds of questions. That only changed fairly recently, and the policy hasn't been updated.

I will reiterate, though, that if you have an event you want to promote, please submit it for the FoF - you're certainly allowed to link to the official UO site in-game. (Just don't spam. I hate spam.)

So, once the policy is updated then it will be an offense to mention Stratics URLs also? (since it's no longer the official forums and thus no longer exempt)

Was being the keyword here

I to, am not bashing stratics, but it's totally unfair to have an exception to the rule for one site because they USED to be an "official" site

Numerous sites were once "Official fansites" to, along with Stratics, but they were stripped of said title and linking to them in game is now a suspensory (sp?) offence. (IF they have any form of banner or service/items for sale)

If you're not willing to have a fansite program OR be willing to update the "safe list" of URL's, then NO site should have any exceptions or special treatment, full stop.

Why would you complain about the fact that Stratics is on the approved list? It would hurt only MORE players if stratics is for some reason banned from being mentioned in game. I can understand why you would not be happy about other sites, like yours not included, but arguing the other way around is simply being downright petty (even if you put a useless disclosure about not being) and nonconstructive.

And this post is made as simply a player, not a moderator.

Also, JC - solicitations for cash also violate the ROC. (Solicitations for in-game gold or items would be fine, btw.)

Which begs the question....

If not here, Where is the OFFICIAL forum than?

EA sure won't host one again, not after all the trouble they had with having to explain grossly contradictory statements by different members of the staff.

Something that you moderators need to realize is that even when you are posting as "simplay a player" the fact remains that you are still a moderator. It is still fair to ask for equal treatment of fansites.

So basically, UO doesn't want any fansites anymore, except ones from a magical imaginary internet where bandwidth is free. Who's driving this retarded policy?

That is completely absurd. So now you are saying that people running UO fansites have to pay for it all themselves? This is a utter double-standard.

*sighs*

So question....Can a site be promoted without mentioning the URL?

Can JC, for example, say that he "edits the UO Guide, which can be found by plugging 'uo guide' into Google?"

-Galen's player

You can't mention Google because they serve advertisements.

So exactly how are fansites supposed to stay operational

So? I am a moderator. So is he of his site.. more than that...

I am not the one asking EA to not include his site to the official list. In fact, I think it should be and its rather silly not to. That is being constructive. Asking the other way around, like he is, is being nonconstructive. You disagree? why?

You definitely can't say "go to google.com."

Can you mention Google?

Oh...And by the way....While we're crucifying Jeremy here (sorry J., but I really must join the detractors on this one at least so far), I want to issue a special thanks......

To the pieces of garbage who were propagating viruses by saying it was a leaked Stygian Abyss video.

I'm pretty sure that's the ultimate source of the current strictness.

-Galen's player

fact is you are a moderator on this site. He is not.

His post was very constructive. Either allow fansites or not. How is that not construcive?

So hey hey hey.....Does that mean that after the Stratics Exception Clause is removed, that we can't direct people to Stratics either?

-Galen's player

That happened like 2 years ago. Do you think that people spreading these things care if they get their temporary accounts banned? They would get suspended anyway if someone paged on them. They will just keep doing it.

Sadly, if this gets any more ridiculous, the solution will be to just shut down UOGuide.

I am more cornfuzzled than before.

How does not having any site allowed helps anyone? Is that any different from "either you let me play ball or I take the ball with me"? Should not the energy and full focus be on getting other sites included in the list, instead of making life more difficult for everyone by taking out the sites already in? I dont know but maybe I am the only one who sees it that way.

You're welcome to advertise through the FoF - because I can vet those links before they go up and make sure there's nothing problematic. The in-game policy is strict because there's way too much potential for abuse (scams, keyloggers, shady gold sellers, etc) and we really don't want our service used to further those purposes.

Don't get me wrong - UOGuide is great, and I fully support it. But the policy is there for a number of very good reasons, and it's not likely to change.

Umm.....Dude. I'm on your side.

Call me nuts I just think that people who break the rules so badly that the authorities end up clamping down on everyone, even those of us who basically follow the rules, bear some responsibility for the crackdown.

-Galen's player

*S....I....G....H*

What's the big damn deal anyway? It's being done for the players' protection. If it's THAT important to give someone a web address, either get their ICQ# or do it in Party or Guild chat (assuming GM's can't see that). At the very least you can write it in a book and hand the book to the other person.

So how do you propose UOguide supports itself.

No, it'll be to just never mention it in-game again, and stick to message boards and the like.

-Galen's player

Not going to argue with you but thanks.

I personally think there should be fair treatment or no treatment. UO needs to just have its own official forum.

They can either sell ads and take donations, and advertise exclusively through out-of-game means (which I am happy to help with,) or they can find some other way to support themselves, and advertise in-game. The UOGuide staff are welcome to email me directly if they'd like to kick around some ideas.

Jeremy:

Is the ban on propagating URLs only? Or is it on advertising a site at all?

Let's operationalize it.

Saying "go to UOGUIDE.com" in-game is clearly NOT allowed.

But, is saying "find the UO Guide" allowed?

I am not trying to trap or trick you. Really. It's a sincere question.

-Galen's player

I think that it is in best interest of Ultima Online players to have sites like Stratics, UO Guide, etc. etc. included in the allowed list. No other alternative is good for me. I would rather have only UO Forums in the allowed site than no sites. Thats what I think.

I have no interest in arguing people who think otherwise either.

Internet providers like comcast let you build personal websites gaming sites etc ad banner free.
Call your internet provider and see what they offer you online webpage building free mail etc. Find out if they put ad banners on your webpages. the url will have your internet providers name in it. but they might have where you can change it to a domain name. You all ready pay for it monthly might as well use it.

It seems like the safest way to abide by all of the new policies is to NOT talk to anyone in game and never mention to anyone in RL that you play the game that way you would probably be safe from being banned

By not talking to anyone in game we could also get rid of all the dupers because if no one would talk to them to either purchase/sell items they will move onto a new game since they would have no clientele here hmm maybe that is EA's new method to rid of us dupers

The keyword there is personal. UOGuide is much too large for that.

Since EA/Mythic seem hell bent on this damn silly policy, perhaps instead of just taking the usual "ban, suspend or abuse players who try to point other players at helpful sites", why not add a command into the client that will bring up a list of the sites you DO recommend as helpful?

That would let you vet things to your heart's content whilst still enabling people to tell others 'type ZZZZ and you'll see a list of good sites to look at outside the game'.

You could easily say "Visit UOGuide - see the link in the Five on Friday here!"

Not to mention I am sure the site uses more than basic HTML serving, meaning some sort of database to store retrieve the information and user accounts since it is built on wiki foundation, as well as active server pages, CGI, ASP and/or PERL. The only free sites I have ever seen from ISP is basic HTML only and quite limited in space.

Which means anything of the size and complexity of UOGuide would have to be on a hosted server.

Jeremy ... this is bad. Real bad. You have no idea what you just opened up. With that one little sentence you just "banned" everyone who says "you can get Automap "here" (automap is an approved program!!) or "go to tugsoft to get Assist" (another APPROVED application). Both of those sites "solicit" cash. On with a paypal donations button, and one with an actual price tag. You can backpedal on that how maybe those sites are "whitelisted" too ... but the fact is, recently our GMs have shown us again and again exactly how little they know of UO and how broadly they interpret these policies.

Tomas_Brice - you are missing the point. I was the first one to say that in all fairness there should be NO whitelist if there is no way to get on it. It was to elaborate exactly how unfair it is to not have that means. It would be like me saying "I have decided from today on my children will not be allowed to watch TV, no way to change my mind about this; BUT, since my 11 year old has watched TV before, she will be the exception to the rule."

Exceptions to rules only cause hard feelings and grief, especially if there is no way for anyone else to get an exception.

Hm, that's a good point. Obviously people can see all the links here but let me check on that.

Hmm, so in all eseence UOAM and UOA should be done away with as well because they either solicit or require cash.......

Methinks policy should be revisited and possibly revised

Ugh. That is the problem. It ISNT obvious. There should be a static link on the Herald for approved applications. No one should be subjected to wading thru the "all EA games" KB to find approved apps.

I hope you don't really think that is what I meant by that. I was trying to point out how people would use this broad policy to grief others via GM's who don't seem to actually know about THIS game. A GM would probably think they are illegal applications!

And yes, the second part of what you said is what I was getting at. The policy wording needs to be changed to reflect that there are approved sites. It would also be a GREAT thing if they re-opened the ability to BECOME an approved site ...

Erm... so saying "Visit UOGuide" is acceptable, whilst saying "Visit www.uoguide.com" isn't?

ya ... a bit of nit-picking there, isnt it? It kinda seems like the policy should say if it has been vetted to be on the FoF then it is good to go in-game for at least that week ....

There is, Ailish - Under "Support", there's a "UO Pro Apps" nav item. It points directly to that KB article.

Use www.uostuff.com and it redirects to uoguide

Glad to hear that. I havent had need of these aps (well, their websites, at least) in ... well many years, so I never thought to look there for it.

Can you tell some one to go to Tugsoft?

I'm sorry, but this is all getting way too ridiculous. I have spent probably hundreds of hours editting, contributing and spellchecking pages on UOGuide to SHARE my 9+ years of UO lore and knowledge with any other player.

UO Guide is not a pay site, has no advertisements for gold brokers, game codes or any of that mess or even Viagra or meds. It's simply a freely edittable guide for any and all to contribute to. JC makes no money off it and pays for it out of his pocket, it's being done for the community, not to buy him a Corvette whereas the only allowed site, Stratics, *is* for-profit, not to mention advertising games that compete with UO.

Don't get me wrong, I was a Stratics mod on and off for years and supported it in that capacity as well as being a paid StraticsPlus member as well, but there should be opportunity for all, esp if it's non-profit at the very least, or re-open the vetting process.

What if Stratics takes a dirt nap, aka the Great Stratics Crash of 2008 a few months back? There will be no sanctioned sites whatsoever and technically the other player community sites are running under the radar, whispered in back alleys.

Remember Hurricane Katrina? How many players donated gold so a donation from the UO community could be made to the Red Cross? Such an activity would now be verboten since it would involve the mention/advertising of other websites.

Is mentioning my email address illegal since it's on Hotmail, which has ads?

There needs to be rules and guidelines, but they should both fit and protect the community and the game and right now I don't think that ideal is being fulfilled.

The more I think about this, the sillier it gets...

Right now, EA/Mythic are pleased to say they are encouraging people to build mods for the KR/SA interface - but in-game, you'll not be able to tell anyone where to GET the mods you've worked on, uness you manage to get a mention by EA in a FoF or similar. You can supposedly refer to 'approved' sites - but there's no system for getting sites 'approved' any more. There's no 'official' site that's in any way, shape or form comprehensive about anything, let alone keeping up on the good fansites out there.

It's just nonsense. One of the things that builds a good community in a game is the ability to refer people to good sites for info and discussion. Trying to stop people using 'bad' sites is a nice thought, but if you end up preventing reference to any sites it's about as counter to 'building community' as you can get.

It's not EA/Mythic's job to protect us from ourselves and try police the world - not even their 'own' world. You can put a nice big warning in the login screen, and after that it's up to us as responsible adults not to be stupid.

Stop trying to be our parents...... stick to fixing what's really broken in the game and give up the half-baked 'social engineering'.

Just got the confirmation - the websites on the UO Pro apps page that I linked above are fine to mention.

Guys, I understand that enforcement of this policy is rather a sudden change, and I really appreciate that fansites are trying to work with us about it. I'm confident that we'll be able to find acceptable solutions all around.

- But would you say the same thing when somebody tells you to goto what sounds like a legitimate site, only to have a keylogger snuck onto your pc when you visit, and eventually have your account hacked if not much, much worse?

As was said just mention prominent sites such as uoguide and people can locate them fairly easily with a search engine.

This old old policy makes sense.
(Although it is unfortunate that people have abused the game & its players and as a result we all end up suffering a bit.)

I would say it is rejected because the site takes too long to load half the time and they got sick and tired of checking it out. You need a new host or better hardware...

/signed

Yes, in the same way I've learned from being scammed in-game in the past. I'm responsible for what I do on my PC. It's not up to EA/Mythic to make me think, that's MY responsibility.

EA's responsibilities are stuff like preventing me being sold 'illegal' items in the game..... THAT needs fixing more than a silly, unenforceable 'don't mention a website' rule will ever do.

And I will be saving a link to this direct quote, because I have no confidence in the GM staff to know this. Someone will page on someone and say "they typed a URL to a site with cash solicitations on it!!" and the GM will go an see the "donation button" and the person will be suspended/banned even before they can say "But the rule says pro-ap sites are excluded!"

Remember we are talking about non-exclusive UO GM's here ... they are gonna get confused or just not know ... (reference thread last weeked about a GM going to delete a corroded box because "it is a quest item and should never have been out of your backpack and thank you for playing DAoC".)

Of the website links in the page you reference:
UOAssist/UO Automap - these have been covered
UO Calculator/UO Spawn Map - dead pages, calculator goes to some approximate searh, 404 error on the map
Magic Tool/Curse Tool - specifies as freeware
Journal Converter - unknown, not specified in the website link

Sooo, there are currently approved items that in effect violate this rule. I hope you can get an answer for us.

Jeremy, I don't know why you guys even bother. Years ago someone invented a script with a "GM alarm" that let someone operate bots on every shard simultaneously while being able to appear "attended" when challenged by a GM, and that was basically the end of the road.

You never adapted, you never changed policy so you could ban these "attended" characters who mine/chop/farm all day, every day. The scripters basically won. The same script miner has been making stops near my house for years, and no matter how many times I page he's always back.

But hey, good work on this URL thing. That sure was important.

Yeah, I don't see that happening.

Please join us in #ultima-online, there are some friendly people who'd like to share some opinions with you in real-time.

Well now that EA is preventing all means of funding UOGuide, how do you propose that we get a faster host and better hardware? Plant some trees and see if money grows on them?

EA is taking a completely unrealistic stance on this issue by preventing fansites from supporting themselves through the charity of their visitors.

I don't even bother paging on them anymore. What's the point? They are free to cheat all they want, but omg mention uoguide.com and you are the bearer of all that is unholy. This URL stance they are only NOW enacting is beyond stupid.

Wow good thing Blizzard doesn't have this dumb policy.
Wowwiki.com has ads and is perhaps one of the most useful WoW related sites out there.

Why do I mention WoWwiki? Because UOGuide is essentially UO's version and VERY useful as opposed to Stratics still having some info that hasn't been changed since UOR lol.

Websites don't pay for themselves EA.

I guess it is time for that little blurb I mentioned before, JC. "If you would like to know what you can do to help support uoguide, please e-mail me at (admin e-mail addy).

Unless it involves EA hosting the sites (wouldn't work in our case) or sending us money, I'm rather stumped as to where an acceptable solution will be found.

My brainz hurt..

JC, couldn't you have a note on the site that if people wanted to help support the site they could contact you via email address, and then discuss it from there? You aren't soliciting cash then on your site, because you *could* in theory accept gold donations, then sell the gold for cash yourself, since selling gold for cash doesnt seem to be against the rules?

I totally understand why these rules are in place, and agree with them. I know it makes it harder for you to get support - but there IS ways around it, as Jeremy said.

Instead of mentioning UOguide.com in game, you simply say "visit uo guide - get the link from the FoF" and link to that =)

And I need to check something, peopel are saying you can't mention google.com either, but that's not right is it? Google isn't set up to advertise in the way the rule is trying to prevent?

I think that the best solution can be have an official forum and an official playguide (updated...). Any software or games must have the right documentation and support... so why we must go in fan site for get a real and updated guide? why we must use 3rd party forums for communicate?

The reply? this is UO and it is in this situation from the beginning because UO is made by the community
so the solution of post link in the fof and then post the fof in game is a joke solution (IMO)

This doesn't work. People are probably thinking that items were just flying off the shelf and I am rolling in a bin of money. But it isn't true. Disregarding the donation made today, there hadn't been a donation since May 11, 2008. There hasn't been an item sale since April 2008. Guess how many fewer donations there are going to be without a big yellow button for people to see?

So for EA to come in and say we can't even have a donation button which gets almost no clicks really ticks me off.

Actually, that line exists in only one copy of your ROC, and, by the way, it's not the one on the UO website. It's the one you have to search for in the EA "Knowledge" base.

And, again, I implore you folks over at Mythic to sit down and develop a fair, and equitable policy regarding this, because it is, as it stands, poorly constructed, and really quite beyond belief.

A lot of people host their sites on services that also include banner ads because that's all they can afford to do. By putting the link to their guild website in the guild profile, they are technically in violation of your precious ROC.

There really needs to be someone sitting down and reviewing complaints for INTENT. It's one thing to say "Don't mention gold-selling websites in game." It's completely different to say "Don't mention a helpful UO tool in game because it asks for donations to help stay afloat so that it doesn't have to have banner ads to stay operational."

If you don't see the difference, there's a problem.

Errr... what's changed? That Stratics isn't the "official forum?" Or that your GMs are sending players here? Because your GMs DO still send players here.
Which is absolutely silly.

It's neither petty, nor nonconstructive. It's not an issue of one way or the other, it's the matter that there's an exception. Either they need to be across the board, or they need to do the appropriate thing and keep intent and content in mind. But this one-way-street line of thinking that they're currently implementing is an issue.

That's absolutely silly, Jeremy. Trying to protect people from themselves is a goal that you're ultimately going to fail at. And yet again, the issue comes down to this: You're CLEARLY not going to be scanning for mention of the words .net, .com, and .org in the game's database, which means that you have an ACTUAL PERSON PHYSICALLY look up the website in question. At that point is where logic and common sense come into play, and the person investigating the issue can say, "Now wait, here in the abuse log, the guy's saying go to my site and buy my warez, this warrants a ban, but in this case here, the guy said, 'Go here for information, and look, there's information here!'" This notion that in an INTERNET based game you can't mention things outside of the game, PARTICULARLY since your game does NOT provide necessary in-game tools in order to accomplish many things is LUDICROUS.
You have yet to provide even one very good reason, and the stance that it's unlikely to change is inappropriate. You have a duty to your customers to provide them rules that make sense and are appropriate for the situations involved.

Now, if the issue is that you're relying on outsourced customer service who can't logically make the determinations as to whether a site is appropriate or not, my suggestion is simple: Stop outsourcing your customer service.

But stop treating your customers like criminals for pointing to outside informational sources. It's getting old, this whole treat your customers like criminals thing, it is.

It's not whether or not you look at the coin from "add more sites" or "remove the exceptions." The issue people are having with your statement, Tomas, is that you somehow feel it is "nonconstructive" to state that there shouldn't be exceptions.

Which, given that you ARE a moderator, sounds a lot like you're saying, "Only CONSTRUCTIVE posts are allowed."

The issue, regardless of how you look at it, is this: EA/Mythic has a lousy policy that they seem VERY unwilling to budge on; if they are unwilling to budge, then they should remove the exceptions to the rule. Clearly most of us -- even the "nonconstructive" of us -- believe EA/Mythic should come up with a better policy than what they have, but they are pretty clearly stating, "We'll come up with a solution, but we're not going to change our policy."

Another Mythic Failure.

Connor, the "big damn deal" as you call it, is pretty simple:

1) You can't ask for a player's ICQ#, because that would be referencing ICQ.com, which is something from the outside world.

2) Party and Guild chat also happen to be in-game, and so if someone complains, and that's logged (which I bet it is), whammo, another stealth banning.

3) And, uh, again, writing it in a book leaves a permanent trace (and they claim to know who wrote books.

The "big damn deal" is that they have a Draconian rule with regard to URLs, and they have it in an INTERNET-BASED game.

- That's odd, we were just told we could reference uoguide when in-game, so why couldn't we ask someone for icq (or even better Skype) information?

Here's an idea:

Accept donations of in-game items.

On a completely UNRELATED site (advertised by word of mouth, private messages, etc.), sell those items for the money to run UOGuide.

Or....

Talk to Jeremy & Regine, and see if you can get their marketing guys to buy sole rights to banner ad space on UOGuide for EA products only - after all, there's more to EA than Mythic, and they advertise a LOT of their console games with banner ads.

Which doesn't answer the more simple question: How does a player like me tell another player, "Go visit uoguide.com to see the write-up on old holiday items..." without getting banned?

That's right, Jeremy. According to your current rules, I don't.

- This is another example of why it is helpful to read the entire thread before venting.

Really?

REALLY?

Okay, so in order to reference an easily referenced site (you know, that's why they created URL's, right, so you don't have to remember http://255.191.180.201), instead, I have to remember a clunky UO.com sublink that will, in turn, lead them to a site that even though during FoF #121 was completely clear and clean, when they click that link, you still have NO control over what's on it today, and that's supposed to be a solution?

So, uh, by that logic, what's wrong with me putting something in my profile that says, "Go make a donation to UO Guide, you can view the site by visiting www.uo.blahblahblah.com/longurl#121"? I mean... really, I never mention anything other than a UO URL, right?

But wait, that's me soliciting, right? So, uh, why not take out the silliness, and move to a policy that looks at intent instead? Or is the two-man GM team REALLY that busy preparing for Warhammer Online that the couple of moments of conscious thought it would take to make that determination really can't be wasted?

I don't want to run a business selling UO items for money and never have. I just wanted to run a fansite. Why do I have to become a broker to do so? Isn't that what this policy is to prevent?
First, the chances of this happening are as high as KR succeeding. Second, I don't want banner ads on UOGuide. That was the whole point in having a discrete item shop.

EA's website for UO info needs to be updated severely and same goes for stratics. UO Guide is a must for any new player.

EA should fix in game issues involving glitches, speed hacking, dupes, LOS probs, and much other issues before they start infringing on ppls freedom of speech in game.

Wow...they own the game cuz they made it...kool. If thats the case...how come they aren't LEGALLY trying to shut down all these Chinese companies that employ child labor to play UO to make gold to sell for money I ask then!?
They are selling in game items and such that are under EA copyright therefore EA owns the items and gold etc.

GO after the big fishes not your paying customers EA!

Oh wait thats right EA has no say in what goes on in China so they pick on us instead!

Sounds just like a big corporation to me screwing over their customers.

I think I'll start playin my 360 again if this shyt keeps up where you have freedom speech and no jackasses hangin on every word treating a frikin adult game like its kindergarden

Bring back chopping off heads! UO is becoming too placid and politically correct and its retarded...

~Time To Pay The Piper~

Just don't log in to tell her where to get the IRC client from... it'll just be more trouble.

Aes, I'm sorry if you think that it's an appropriate thing to have to say, "Go visit UO Guide, the link to it can be found at some attrociously long UO Fluff On Friday page, and I can't really tell you where to go find it otherwise, so go look for it there, because if I even hint to you that it's a .com and someone else overhears me, and decides to be a snivelling little jerk and page on me for 'advertising a non-UO site,' the GM that answers will come suspend me for 24-hours, and then, because I had an incident of not listening to a GM 8 years ago, he'll probably ban my account too, so I'm not going to bother telling you that it is a .com, et cetera, ad nauseum," I'm sorry.

I'm also sorry if you think EA/Mythic's current policy is appropriate.

It's not.

Uhh, JC - isn't my idea a "discrete item shop" by definition?

And, While I understand the desire to not use banners (and I agree with the sentiment of not using 3rd-party banner ads completely, as you would not have any control over the safety of the material), you should at least make the attempt to get indirect funding via EA ads (the only 100% guaranteed way to fail is to not try at all), as at least with them, there would be direct accountability.

Oh and I too oppose the current URL restrictions in terms of fan sites, and think that Cal & the others need to wake up and realizing they are asking the established UO communities to not do things that pages they list on their WAR & DOAC pages do, with their apparent blessing.

The same way any other fan site or guild site do...this will not be a popular view, but there are a number of free hosting sites and forums out there. JC could have chose to use those rather then pay for a domain that choice was his there for he should support it if that is his desire.

The PoC site is on a free/pay site (guild portal) and I pay for it as that was my choice to use it, I do not ask for money from my guild or anyone else and would not as it was my choice to put the site where I did, I could have used a free site.

The rules are pretty clear and there to protect - who is to say that donations he claims are used to maintain the site are? not saying there not but how can EA be sure of that?

This is a copy of a post from the lost lands, it may or may not help.

I'd say anyone that has known JC for any length of time

Yeah - Donations to ANYTHING have always relied on trust, be it to defray costs for a web page, or sending off a check to the MDA on Labor Day.

But that is not everyone that is not ALL the UO community that is not all EA staff that is his circle of friends and acquaintances.

He could be a genuine straight up guy, not saying he isnt what I am saying is how do EA know he is and how do EA know everyone else that wants to take dontations for there community site just like JC does is?

The same could be said for just about anything. So what is the point of anything really. Cant trust a soul in the world except yourself really......

correct you can not trust anyone really not with 100% certainty so that is why the rules are put into place to protect everyone equally and not make special exceptions for one site over an other.

haha. But you see, therein lies the hypocrisy. Stratics has special exceptions

Would all this still be an issue if we had approved fan sites back? Just curious. As it stands people have to realize that Jeremy did not come in here and make up this policy nor did she single handedly decide to enforce it. She is the liason and this is not an easy situation to mediate.

Perhaps if we all sent in our feedback using the correct form and asked for approved fan sites back to make it easier to facilitate knowledge of UO to other players. In the meantime I will happily refer to these helpful sites without the .com or suggest the FoF link at uo.com.

No. The way it used to be was someone messaged me for the item, they sent me money and I gave them item. All done. Now you are proposing that I go through the trouble of setting up a network and advertising sales. Then I have to worry about scamming because these aren't just my items, they are ones people donated. It would not be fun to know that all your donations were lost because someone scammed them.
No free host is going to put up with a website with UOGuide's level of traffic. UOGuide practically needs its own dedicated server at this point. Those go for over $100 per month.